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Old 10-11-2013, 04:20 AM   #16
Barbadi OP
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Thanks Plaka...

anyone else has any other suggestions?
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:25 AM   #17
AlpineRAM
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My take on it- Unemployed in Greece means you have much more time than money on hand. So use the time you have to avoid spending the money you don't have.

I would split the problem in 2 separate parts- Starter and Not running right.

Since you already have removed the starter you could put the bike together and try to push start it. (Take care about the big + cable for the starter not making contact with anything that it should not contact, it is unfused and can incinerate your bike and make the battery explode and spill acid over your private parts)
If it runs OK you know that you have your ignition sorted, if not you know that you will have more work.

I do not concur with Plaka's theories on DC motors, but he is nevertheless right in telling you to take a look at the contacts of the solenoid (or Bendix), all the copper contacts in there should be really nice and both contacts should be the same thickness. (Usually just one gets burnt off)
The armature diameter can become critical because the brush contacts more "fields" on the armature at the same time than it was designed for. As a quick and dirty test you can file off a little bit from each brush so that only a smaller section contacts the armature. (That is not intended as a permanent fix!)
If this helps it looks like time for a new armature. If not, your problem is somewhere else.

Since your tests point to a lot of energy going into the starter and not much coming out as mechanical energy, there must have been a lot of heat. Try to find out where it gets hot first and investigate.


HTH

AlpineRAM

PS: If you need some Bosch parts let me know, I might have them around.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:38 AM   #18
Barbadi OP
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That is what I was looking for AlpineRAM

Thanks, I was suspecting it has to do with the armature's "d", since it turns but after sucking all the juice out of the car system, and its under proper specs.

Problem is that the bike has been sitting for 3 years now, and from my first attempts the lady made clear that she won't start that easy. Especially without the starter motors help.

Anyway I will see if I can jump start it with help from friends, and thin a little the brushes. And spot the hot points. You were very helpfull.
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Old 10-18-2013, 07:20 AM   #19
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News update ... --- ...

Alpine you were dead on the subject!

Most of the commutator segments were around 4,5 mm wide, but the brushes were almost 7mm. I dremmeled the brushes to a thinner 4,2 mm and put the starter motor together and it works fine!

But the lady still has no pulse! Now the spark is gone from the plugs, although after changing the ignition control unit I had sparks. Now the starter turns but in vain.

Do I have a circuit gremlin or I fried the second icu?
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:54 AM   #20
AlpineRAM
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Thanks for the update!
I would not continue running the starter like this if you can afford either a new one or a new armature...

Since you did a lot of different things on the bike already I would suggest that you start over with the basics. Since the starter works we know you have juice in the battery, you have an at least partially working ignition switch and you have engine ground.

My next step would be to check all the suspect connections again, especially coming from the ignition switch to the ICU. (And the test for voltage on pin 15 of the coil)

I don't know how you would have killed another ICU since you were advised on grounding the spark plugs... so let's hope that it's just a lose cable or something trivial like that.
Maybe you can retrace the steps that led you to determining the ICU before your starter gave up...

Cheers!
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:10 AM   #21
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News flash from the underworld:

I fiddled with the bike in any way I could imagine.
I measure voltage on ignition coil terminal 15, it was same as battery voltage.

I measured how many miliamps I have with the icu's terminal 5 out, between it and the and the 4 in. The multimeter stated 0.00

Finally with the old ignition coils on the bike and the new ignition control unit I took a wire and grounded the middle port of the wiring plug that goes to the ignition trigger to the engine block. Sparks are there!

That does not, I repeat NOT happens with the old icu I have.

Good news: I haven't fried my new icu, and seems I didn't pay for here in vain.

Bad news: I need a ignition trigger assemply? These things are dead expensive, though.

Haynes and BMW say that you cannot repair them but I remember having seen a thread where a fellow adv rider, took a chance at repairing it himself. But I can not find it and I spent half a night looking. Anybody has a clue?

Anybody has a cheap source for these things, new or used with a warranty? Other than motorworks.co.uk that is.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:20 AM   #22
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News part II

Took the bean can off the bike. Opened it and it was in the expected condition of a 30 year item. I took apart evrything to the point I have to cut free the two discs that hold the hall sensor.

But the thing that rolls arount it and gives the signal to the sensor has a small amount of freeplay on its shaft. Does it mean I should look for a hole bean can alltogether, can it be measured?
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:10 AM   #23
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Anybody...

Out there?
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:21 AM   #24
AlpineRAM
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Well, it sounds like the hall sensor.
The bean can is expensive, but maybe you can score one for cheap (ish) on ebay.

On the other hand you can use a standard hall sensor from an electronics dealer and build an adapter to get it in the correct position in the can.

HTH
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Old 11-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #25
Warin
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If you make your subject say what you want then you might attract the right attention. I'm not responding to weegie boards yet.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...oken-itu-41532
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:47 AM   #26
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Datchew wrote two good threads, one on bean can hall sensor repair, and one on the beancan points... both have hints about the dis-assembly process....

Points

Advance

Maybe this helps!
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:57 AM   #27
Barbadi OP
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I 'll go the sensor way.

Thanks everybody, weegee board users or not, I will remove the hall sensor and try to plug a new one. I 'm trying to locate a seller of a siemens one near europe, since the Jaycar option is a little far, and the china replica was reported not to work as expected from some fellows.

I 'll keep you posted.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:32 PM   #28
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I finally found the pictures of the beancan that fellow inmate Datchew had posted a few years ago....

Here is a link

He asks for a password which I finally found to be "zilla", fyi....

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Old 11-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #29
Barbadi OP
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I got me a new hall sensor

mail ordered a Siemens HKZ 101 from Bulgaria. Couple of questions:

1. Is there any danger of it getting fried while I solder extension cables on it?

2. Is there a trick on getting the two metal discs away from one another so I can screw the new sensor on the top one? I cant move them apart and I don't want to use extra force on them, cause they seem ready to bend out of shape when I do.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:08 PM   #30
Warin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbadi View Post
1. Is there any danger of it getting fried while I solder extension cables on it?
Yes. But not if you use some caution regarding electrostatic discharge. Tip of soldering iron should be earthed, as should you. The device itself in not overly sensitive, so you should be fine by temporally getting rid of any charge by pressing your hand on a good metal surface .. like your work bench. I don't think you'd damaged it even if you ignore the above.. but do check the iron tip is earthed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbadi View Post
2. Is there a trick on getting the two metal discs away from one another so I can screw the new sensor on the top one? I cant move them apart and I don't want to use extra force on them, cause they seem ready to bend out of shape when I do.
If you care to look in that link I posted above you'll find flashes page on it and that contains

Some have a base plate which can be removed with 2 small screws underneath to make access easier while re riviting and some have the lower plate as part of the top plate where the (rivet holes are) which I have not been able to dissassemble without dammaging at this point. You can still re rivet the new sensor to these by drilling from underneath 2 access holes aprox 9mm to insert a riviting tool.

I'd say the ones with the screws are early models - the later ones are one piece (probably cheaper to make).

Warin screwed with this post 11-20-2013 at 11:14 PM
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