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Old 05-10-2009, 11:53 PM   #31
makazica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeprod92211
Makazica,
Zerodog je odlican majstor!
On je uredio moj 2000 LC4E da je sada kao nov!
A ja sam 220 lbs (malo tezi od tebe).
Njegove preporuke su vrlo precizne, i stvarno covek zna o cemu govori!
Thanks man! I had no worries about his qualifications. I worry about the price that he's going to post....+ shipping.

Where are you from...??

BTW....Zerodog, I'm still waiting for your PM.....gimme some recommendations, guidelines....prices..

Thanks!
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:36 PM   #32
mikeprod92211
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Zrenjanin, Banat!
Emigrated to the USA 40 years ago!
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:13 AM   #33
Mtncrzr
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I hate to say it, but when I got my 640 it handled like crap. New springs remedied that. WP is great, it just needs set up for you.

New valving was the icing on the cake... Thanks Zerodog!
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:32 AM   #34
DaBit
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OK, I will continue in this thread instead of creating a new one. I'm fairly new here, so if this is not what people want, let me know.

Three questions about the suspension:

1) Sag setting.
The previous owner mounted heavier springs in the forks and on the rear shock. Since he weights about as much as I do, these springs work well for me too. I have no idea what springs are installed, though.

But now I am about to pack the bike for a trip to Morocco. This means 10-15kg of luggage. I have not tried it yet, but I am probably unable to set the static sag and sag with rider both to the correct values without changing the springs. Which I cannot do since I'm out of 'bike-money'.

Now, if the current springs prove to be too heavy or light: would I change the preload so that the static sag is correct? Or would I set the preload so that the sag with rider is correct? Or would I choose a compromise?

2) Rear shock frame mount bushing.
I had my shock serviced, and got it back yesterday. When mounting the shock, I noticed there were a few millimeters of vertical play on the upper mounting point of the shock with the bolt torqued to the value in the user manual (45Nm if I recall correctly).

I suppose a little play is OK, but I cannot find a maximum value of the play allowed. How much play is acceptable on that bushing?


3) Rear shock removal.
What is the quickest way to remove/reinstall the rear shock on an LC4 Adventure 2003? I could not find a way to wrestle the shock in place with everything else attached, so I ended up pulling the swingarm backwards. But there must be a 'trick'...
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:27 PM   #35
wrk2surf
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remove linkage first...then it drops out the bottom ... I wouldnt worry about 1-15 K just try seting the clickers to a stiffer setting
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:19 PM   #36
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBit

2) Rear shock frame mount bushing.
I had my shock serviced, and got it back yesterday. When mounting the shock, I noticed there were a few millimeters of vertical play on the upper mounting point of the shock with the bolt torqued to the value in the user manual (45Nm if I recall correctly).

I suppose a little play is OK, but I cannot find a maximum value of the play allowed. How much play is acceptable on that bushing?

...
A few millimeters sounds like too much. I'd pull that shock back out & have a close look at the bushing, bolt & mount. On my 640 the lower shock bearing seems to be the most wear prone part of the rear suspension.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:45 PM   #37
bmwktmbill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk2surf
remove linkage first...then it drops out the bottom ... I wouldnt worry about 1-15 K just try seting the clickers to a stiffer setting
That sounds good to me. With rear shock removal there are several threads that describe the best way to rotate the shock and work the swing arm up and down. Watch out, when it falls out it is heavy and will hurt you.

Do you have stiffer springs front and rear?

When setting the clickers back off on the rebound a little and increase the compression.

Check this out:

http://mx-tech.com/downloads/tuning_guide.pdf

bill
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:41 AM   #38
DaBit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz
A few millimeters sounds like too much. I'd pull that shock back out & have a close look at the bushing, bolt & mount.
Bolt was OK; I cleaned and greased it before mounting the shock. Mount is OK too; no movement of the bolt there. So, it's the bushing.

I also contacted the suspension guys, and they agreed the play was too much. They will send me another bushing, I will replace it myself. I suppose it's not more difficult than any other bearing on the bike. Doing it myself is quicker than sending the shock to them again.

Quote:
On my 640 the lower shock bearing seems to be the most wear prone part of the rear suspension.
That ProLink bearing on the linkage was completely shot on my bike. I replaced that already when I regreased the linkage.

Quote:
Do you have stiffer springs front and rear?
Yes. Although I don't know how much stiffer compared to original they are. I haven't found a number on them yet (but I haven't looked too hard for that number either)

Quote:
Check this out:
Good link, thanks!

Quote:
I wouldnt worry about 1-15 K just try seting the clickers to a stiffer setting
I will have to set the preload anyway. It came back from the suspension guys with preload close to minimal. That gives me about 30mm static sag and a bike which almost rides like a chopper.
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:55 AM   #39
meat popsicle
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DaBit,

curious: did you not find any of the sag threads, or perhaps they are not easily understandable? There is a whole pile of them in Post #1 of the 640 index. No flame, just wondering. The sag must be set, and must fall into the range specified by WP/KTM, or your suspension's behavior may be poor. Your manual will specify, and it is discussed ad nauseum in the sag threads.

You may already appreciate this, but adapting the suspension to more weight by using preload envokes the law of diminishing returns. The action of the suspension will become harsher as the preload is increased. You will loose the plush response and may end up with alot of chatter. Just want you to be aware of the cost of preload.

When you did the prolink bearing did you check the bearings on the frame where the dog bones attach? It sounds like you probably did, but those were the worst on my 03.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:50 PM   #40
DaBit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
DaBit,

curious: did you not find any of the sag threads, or perhaps they are not easily understandable? There is a whole pile of them in Post #1 of the 640 index. No flame, just wondering.
Of course I did find the sag threads. That's also why I continued in this thread instead of creating a new one.

But I missed the 'what to do with luggage'. I might have overlooked it since most suspension threads quickly turn into half a flame war.

What I couldn't find through the index was the 'easiest' way to remove/reinstall the shock. The forum search wasn't very helpful either. Google did it better, but it was actually the first time I used Google to search a single site.

Quote:
You may already appreciate this, but adapting the suspension to more weight by using preload envokes the law of diminishing returns.
I know. But for a given load on the bike, there is only a single spring rate which satisfies both the static sag and rider sag perfectly. All other spring rates deviate somehow. I just wondered where to optimize for.
I was also asking in advance so I can do the job start to finish. There is a fair chance that the current spring is OK.

But if it's not, so be it. I have no money left to buy another spring. I'd rather take a less perfect bike to unknown places than have a perfect bike in the garage but no money to do something with it.

Quote:
When you did the prolink bearing did you check the bearings on the frame where the dog bones attach?
I did. They were nicely packed with grease and totally OK. In fact, they were the best preserved bearings in the entire linkage.
I cleaned the old grease out with some petroleum, blowed them dry with compressed air, and re-greased them with waterproof (Bel-Ray) grease.


The shock bushing was in the mailbox today. Nice and quick service (although they should have replaced it while servicing the shock in the first place...).

Unfortunately they did not send me the seals also .

DaBit screwed with this post 04-09-2010 at 02:56 PM
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:05 PM   #41
meat popsicle
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Sounds like you got your head screwed on right DaBit: travel before farkling! The other way around is the equivalent of masturbation eh?

I hope your current setup works well enough to carry you through Africa, and does it well too. I recall folks saying you optimize for your usual weight (rider + gear, if that includes luggage: OK). But remember that at the speeds most sane folks travel long distances through Africa, without a support crew and such, will probably negate most issues related to this. Just my thought probably.

I can't think of what other tuning trick to do on the back for weight compensation besides preload, but if you do have to ride a little lower you might want to compensate by balancing it with the front - slipping the forks up in the triples might help - best to get a suspension tuner's attention or alot of time to filter through the sag threads.

Thanks for the feedback on the index; wish I had time to do something about it.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:40 PM   #42
bmwktmbill
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Dabit,
When you have the shock off take the spring off and shorten it as much as possible(if you have the skill or the guts), that will stiffen it.

I did that before I forked over the money for a new spring the right weight.

Torch it, bend it flat, grind it.
Install.
Pray.

This is for fork springs but springs are springs.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/arc.../t-611933.html

bill
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'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley

bmwktmbill screwed with this post 04-11-2010 at 10:49 PM
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:33 PM   #43
DaBit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Sounds like you got your head screwed on right DaBit: travel before farkling! The other way around is the equivalent of masturbation eh?
I do as little farkling as possible. I'm more a ducttape, tiewraps and pennytech kind of guy

Quote:
I hope your current setup works well enough to carry you through Africa, and does it well too.
I suppose it will. Even without much preload (preload rings to 'minimum' position) the rear is not that saggy.
When the seals for the shock bushing arrives, I will pull the shock, install a new bushing, crank up the preload a bit, and adjust the riding sag for rider+gear+luggage. Then I will check if the static sag is not that much off.

Quote:
I recall folks saying you optimize for your usual weight (rider + gear, if that includes luggage: OK).
OK, that's what the question was all about.

Quote:
But remember that at the speeds most sane folks travel
Who says I'm sane?

But you are right. However: there are three things that keep you on the road and off the nearest cliff: brakes, suspension and tyres. The engine is also somewhat important of course, but it's not keeping you on the road.

Quote:
but if you do have to ride a little lower you might want to compensate by balancing it with the front
I will keep the rear at it's original height. That's going to be fun when loaded with luggage (32" inseam) :)

Quote:
Thanks for the feedback on the index; wish I had time to do something about it.
Just note that it might also be me being a bit too lazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
Dabit,
When you have the shock off take the spring off and shorten it as much as possible(if you have the skill or the guts), that will stiffen it.
Too risky a good week before leaving. Especially the 'pray' part :)
But good to know it can be done this way.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:43 AM   #44
gunnerbuck
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I do quite a bit of loaded travel with my 640 and the setup I have is maybe not ideal but it works for me... After riding for a few years with the too soft stock setup I moved towards a firmer ride...

I picked up a rear shock that had been rebuilt by Race Tech and had the stiffer 75-260 installed... After installing this the front end seemed even softer so I went shopping for stiffer front springs...

I put a want add up in the fleamarket for some used 4.8 950 springs, received many replies and took the best deal.... The 950 springs are 15-25 mm shorter so I made a spacer out of pvc pipe that would put the total spring length+spacers about 10mm shorter than the stock 640 setup... I blended 50/50 5wt fork oil with ATF and filled both tubes to 120mm from the top... This setup works pretty good with the comp/rbd clickers setup close to the stock position {exact #s I don't remember}...

This setup ended up being pretty balanced on both ends but because I do a lot of loaded/loaded 2 up travel I made the back end a little stiffer by cranking the preload ring down about 40% of the thread from the top. This made for a good all around setup with the back being a little stiff when running light but no ill effect on overall handling... I made no changes to this setup when running loaded, it handled the extra weight just fine and rode very smooth... Of coarse what works for me may not for others as it's all about individual choice when it comes to suspension...
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:55 AM   #45
Tseta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck
I put a want add up in the fleamarket for some used 4.8 950 springs, received many replies and took the best deal.... The 950 springs are 15-25 mm shorter so I made a spacer out of pvc pipe that would put the total spring length+spacers about 10mm shorter than the stock 640 setup...
For anyone else looking for stiffer forks springs, "direct-fit, no spacers necessary" .48 fork springs for the LC4 Adventure are detailed in this post.

Cheers,

Tseta
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