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Old 11-11-2012, 06:21 AM   #1651
wpbarlow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampera View Post
...Apart from the claimed improved fuel efficiency and reduced service interval, I can't see a single improvement. It looks like the marketing department gave a brief to the engineers along the lines of: "Can you build a bike with does the best that the competition does, only better?"

Which they have done, but they've ended up with something that's just a slight improvement on the competition, but actually worse in terms of what the predecessor bike was best at.

Fuel efficiency and reduced (and easier) service are big issues, mentioned a lot in OC.

The TC, drive modes, improved braking, and dirt ABS seem pretty useful.

According to the article- it's not only an improvement (I'll dispute the left-handed compliment "slight" part) on the competition but on the 9x0 as well. Know what I thought the most outrageous comment in the article was-- that the R was a better dirtbike than the SE according to a person with some dirt cred. Think about that for a minute, and get back to me after you ride the new bike.

Granted, these "first look" (exclusive or not) articles are generally high on praise and low on "issues"; but with the experience I have with KTM, absent any first hand experience on the new bike, I'm willing to accept that they knocked it out of the park again.

Bottom line is that I'm more willing to accept at face value the opinions of people who have ridden the bike than the opinions of people who haven't.

And, yeah, I like the look of the 9x0 more, but I'm not going to pout about it and let it poison what looks like big improvements of the new bike.

wpbarlow screwed with this post 11-11-2012 at 07:09 AM
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:09 AM   #1652
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I am glad they are keeping the 990 around. I was pretty disappointed with the 1190 thinking it would be the next gen of the 950-990 evolution. It is not a dual sport in my opinion, it is more of a street bike that you can ride off road a little easier than an all out street bike.

It is a great way to compete with the BMW's though! It is a great new addition to their line of bikes in the super moto/street bike category! I don't like the exhaust running under the bike, the naked look on the bottom front half and the gigantic single sided muffler for dirt bike use.

If I win the lottery, I would totally love to set this thing all up for riding cross country and have it in my garage! I think for the average person though you get a much better bang for your buck with the 950 or 990.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:53 AM   #1653
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Originally Posted by Tripndrag View Post
I am glad they are keeping the 990 around. I was pretty disappointed with the 1190 thinking it would be the next gen of the 950-990 evolution. It is not a dual sport in my opinion, it is more of a street bike that you can ride off road a little easier than an all out street bike.

.
What do you mean about keeping the 990 around? Everything I've read says production has already stopped. Did I miss something?
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #1654
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What do you mean about keeping the 990 around? Everything I've read says production has already stopped. Did I miss something?
I think he means all the leftovers still sitting on dealership floors.... .
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:17 AM   #1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
Know what I thought the most outrageous comment in the article was-- that the R was a better dirtbike than the SE according to a person with some dirt cred. Think about that for a minute, and get back to me after you ride the new bike.
I almost spit out my coffee when I read that part about the super enduro. That is where they lost all credibility with me. I own a new 990r and have ridden a SE, my R has fully upgraded, revalved suspension, and the SE is another step above it off road, so I can't buy that the new bike is better than both. Reminds me of Motocross action always picking Yamaha bikes as best, even when almost universally they are slammed in every other publication.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #1656
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Originally Posted by idc22 View Post
I almost spit out my coffee when I read that part about the super enduro. That is where they lost all credibility with me. I own a new 990r and have ridden a SE, my R has fully upgraded, revalved suspension, and the SE is another step above it off road, so I can't buy that the new bike is better than both. Reminds me of Motocross action always picking Yamaha bikes as best, even when almost universally they are slammed in every other publication.
You might be right... but you might also be wrong... it has happened in the past that new bikes completely outperforms previous bikes you know ;-) Let us wait and see.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:57 PM   #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
that the R was a better dirtbike than the SE according to a person with some dirt cred.
That observation was from Chippy Wood. I think he is a pretty credible source whose opinions are usually spot on.

BIKE Magazine isn't afraid to let in be known when they don't like something.

I'm more interested in this bike than ever after their supplement arrived.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:04 PM   #1658
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Every other motorcycle has gotten better since 2003, not sure why people think KTM would make a bike that is worse than the model it is replacing, which is not that different than the model they introduced a decade ago.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #1659
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Darn it. I thought it would be my Ducati replacement but if its better than an SE!?


I like the SE for carbs, no emissions, limited ecu, no tcs, abs or other random bs. It is not better than the SE for that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:55 AM   #1660
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I bought 'Bike' magazine and red the 36-page feature this weekend.

I was originally unimpressed with the 1190 Adventure but after reading the article, I can see it has been designed for the broader 'Adventure Bike' market and should compete with the other over-priced toys. I mean that in a nice way!

My over-riding feeling is that KTM did not differentiate the standard 1190 and the 1190R enough. Many have criticised the low slung exhaust and KTM are right to put it on the standard (non-R) model for better luggage solutions but I would have expected the R model to have had a high level pipe just like the current 990. It's the one thing that shouts 'unsuitable' at the core market for this bike.

My personal feeling is that I don't want complicated electronics. Nomatter how good they are when a bike is new, just get a few years and a few thousand miles on it and then re-assess whether it is a burden or a godsend! One of the things that attracted me to my 990 Adventure was the relative simplicity and purity of design. I'm such a luddite that it has taken me three months to accept the ABS that I didn't really want on it so I'd be overwhelmed and out of my depth with fly-by-wire throttles etc!

If you read the Bike feature, it will provide more of an insight into what KTM were trying to achieve and compared to the current competition (Tiger Explorer, MTS1200 and the R1200GS) it is certainly more dirt-oriented and they have done a good job balancing the needs of the big-wallet market with the KTM DNA. I just wish the R model had bent a bit further to meet the 990 Adventure market.

I would also;like to know the actual difference in fuel consumption compared to the 990. If it is supposed to be 20% better then it's quite a feat - I managed 49mpUKg on my last fill but I know that isn't typical . We're unlikely to have any data on this until the bike press have some long term test bikes to try out.

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Old 11-12-2012, 04:17 AM   #1661
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Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post

The TC, drive modes, improved braking, and dirt ABS seem pretty useful.

And, yeah, I like the look of the 9x0 more, but I'm not going to pout about it and let it poison what looks like big improvements of the new bike.
I agree on the look the 9x0 is much better looking, but as for the rest they are only improvements if that is what you want on a bike.
For me I have just got a new 990 as there is nothing else on the market for what I want out of a bike, ie no abs, no traction control, no computer controled linked brakes, no fly wire, no can bus - if I am honest I would prefer a shaft drive, and bigger tank or fuel range but I can sort that one and put up with the chain drive for somthing that in all other respects is exactly what I want. but in the absence of the 990 I cant see me ever buying a new bike, and my choice of second hand ones is diminishing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:15 AM   #1662
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Another worthless opinion

Just my feeling but KTM seems to be jumping into the OVERPRICED market(BMW,Harley) with both feet. 30% over fair market price. While everyone else ups their price 1-5% for improved models or in some cases stays the same. KTM seems to think they can now jump into the (you're paying for the name(HD)/roundel(BMW) with a $5000 US increase. And they aren't even shaft drive. What's that all about?
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:18 AM   #1663
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I agree on the look the 9x0 is much better looking, but as for the rest they are only improvements if that is what you want on a bike.
For me I have just got a new 990 as there is nothing else on the market for what I want out of a bike, ie no abs, no traction control, no computer controled linked brakes, no fly wire, no can bus - if I am honest I would prefer a shaft drive, and bigger tank or fuel range but I can sort that one and put up with the chain drive for somthing that in all other respects is exactly what I want. but in the absence of the 990 I cant see me ever buying a new bike, and my choice of second hand ones is diminishing.
Your 990 has a CAN Bus .......... sorry.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:49 AM   #1664
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Ordered it

OK, here's a positive comment - I think. I just ordered the 1190 Adventure.
This is taking a risk, of course, because I haven't seen the bike yet let alone tested it. But my dealer has already sold three 1190s on the pictures and specs alone so I'm not the only idiot.

I've had really all kinds of bikes, but the last few years, I have become interested in big 'adventure' bikes. tested the BMW R1200GS and F800GS, Triumph Tiger 800, Ducati Multistrada and KTM 990 Adventure from various dealerships. At the time, I found the BMW and Ducati too heavy and too ugly. The Tiger 800 is very nice but power is a bit too linear, it just doesn't feel very quick to me. Same with the F800GS, and the narrower front tires caused me some concern during fast cornering. The KTM 990 Adventure was not comfortable to me. My knees were too high and there was way too much buffeting around my helmet.
I bought the KTM 990 SM T. Love that bike. In spite of the small non-adjustable screen, there is no wind noise, I am comfortable for hours on end, the engine feels very alive and you can be a hooligan on it.

There is really no need to get another bike, but hey. Sometimes you want a change. Perhaps I am more the envisioned customer because I have somewhat deeper pockets than some (apparently), I do not already own an Adventure, I do not buy the 1190 to go off road but to travel (where I don't have to turn back if the road turns to gravel), and I'm actually looking forward to ABS and other electronics. Call me what you want...

I'll keep you updated on how the 1190 Adventure actually rides from around March 2013.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:54 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
Just my feeling but KTM seems to be jumping into the OVERPRICED market(BMW,Harley) with both feet. 30% over fair market price. While everyone else ups their price 1-5% for improved models or in some cases stays the same. KTM seems to think they can now jump into the (you're paying for the name(HD)/roundel(BMW) with a $5000 US increase. And they aren't even shaft drive. What's that all about?
Fair market price, what is that? Which bikes are you comparing it to, and how do you even know about a $5000 increase?

And by the way, it's not KTMs job to sell you something for what YOU think is fair, they are a business that is about making money. If they can make more profit in total by selling fewer bikes but at a higher price, then obviously that's what they will and should do.

I don't see any competitors offering something equal at a better price, so let us know what exactly you are talking about.
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