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Old 11-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #1666
Yardstick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idc22 View Post
I almost spit out my coffee when I read that part about the super enduro. That is where they lost all credibility with me. I own a new 990r and have ridden a SE, my R has fully upgraded, revalved suspension, and the SE is another step above it off road, so I can't buy that the new bike is better than both. Reminds me of Motocross action always picking Yamaha bikes as best, even when almost universally they are slammed in every other publication.
That part about the new "R" being better than the SE stuck with me, too. It's going to take more than a few words from their resident dirt guy to convince me. I'd like to see KTM re-shoot the SE promo video with one of the new "R" bikes.



Then maybe they can reassemble Team Double Barrel Racing for another run at the Baja 1000 on it.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:00 PM   #1667
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Cool on the 1190 ordered. Jealous of the SMT, I wanted one but the ol'lday liked the passenger seat better on the Duc. I don't want to be terribly down on electronics, they have their place (can't imagine a pickup or car without EFI, although traction control can screw off).

I like the 1190 R for what it is, a very nice, more capable replacement for my Ducati (which has all of that stuff). The Ducati also proves to me why I don't want it on my SE:

- Traction control is terrible, mine is turned off (cool that Ducati let's you do this one time, rather than every start-up)
- Fueling is somewhat suspect at low rpms (SE pulls much harder below 4000 rpm)
- Doesn't like bad weather, rough starting and random stalling after being ridden in heavy snow/rain (SE can be ridden through streams seat deep just like my old carbed KLX without a sputter)

I would expect KTM to do better than the Duc on all of the above, but for a backwoods bike, I like the simplicity of the old school. I can't imagine the 1190 will compete there nor was it ever planned to it.

I can't wait to see the 1190R compared side by side with the new GSA Liquid cooled, the Tenere, the new Tiger Adventure, I expect it to win, and that would be a huge testament to KTM's ability not only to build a quality machine, but be able to read the market and capitalize. (The SMT is a perfect example of not doing the latter. Great bike, same market as the Multi yet there are a million new red Ducatis running around and not many SMTs)
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:56 PM   #1668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
Just my feeling but KTM seems to be jumping into the OVERPRICED market(BMW,Harley) with both feet. 30% over fair market price. While everyone else ups their price 1-5% for improved models or in some cases stays the same. KTM seems to think they can now jump into the (you're paying for the name(HD)/roundel(BMW) with a $5000 US increase. And they aren't even shaft drive. What's that all about?
Where are the prices advertised by KTM???? I didnt think the US or Aust pricing had been released yet???
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:08 PM   #1669
gbx2001
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Comparison of LC8 and RC8 motors

I have searched a bit in the OC looking for a comparison of the LC8 (990) and RC8 motors (1190) but have not found much. Can anyone point me to articles comparing the strengths and weeknesses of these 2 designs.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:34 AM   #1670
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This comparison is from my project. RC8 is the roadracer NOT the Starbuckser.

LC8:
3000 - nil
4000 - 75 nm
5000 - 80 nm
6000 - 84 nm
7000 - 86 nm
8000 - 83 nm
9000 - 72 nm

RC8R:
3000 - 87 nm
4000 - 94 nm
5000 - 102 nm
6000 - 106 nm
7000 - 117 nm
8000 - 115 nm
9000 - 112 nm
10000 - 110 nm
10500 - 100nm

These are not accurate but still ok.

Mikael
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:17 AM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
Fair market price, what is that? Which bikes are you comparing it to, and how do you even know about a $5000 increase?

.
I am not comparing bikes so much as comparing model year price increases for same models to each other.
Most new and improved models go up 2-7% over previous models years. Like the improved 2013 FJR1300 is only $300.00 dollars more than previous 2012 model http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91462.html. Even BMW's new redesigned 1200 GSA is going from $18,350 to $21,005 US @ today's rate a 12.6% increase http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ces-51003.html.
While the difference from 2012 KTM 990R to 2013 1190R is $15,395 to 14,895euros which can be $ 18,989 @ todays exchange to $ 20,595 which it was quote at in Motorcycle online mag and the 'Bike' article http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ced-51002.html. Making it approx $4-5000.00 over current 2012 990R price which is approx 30% over its 2012 price. That is what I am saying. A reasonable increase for reasonable improvements, which is similar to other manufacturers in this market and economy.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:39 AM   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
I am not comparing bikes so much as comparing model year price increases for same models to each other....
IOW, you have no idea
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:07 AM   #1673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
I am not comparing bikes so much as comparing model year price increases for same models to each other.
Most new and improved models go up 2-7% over previous models years. Like the improved 2013 FJR1300 is only $300.00 dollars more than previous 2012 model http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91462.html. Even BMW's new redesigned 1200 GSA is going from $18,350 to $21,005 US @ today's rate a 12.6% increase http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ces-51003.html.
While the difference from 2012 KTM 990R to 2013 1190R is $15,395 to 14,895euros which can be $ 18,989 @ todays exchange to $ 20,595 which it was quote at in Motorcycle online mag and the 'Bike' article http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ced-51002.html. Making it approx $4-5000.00 over current 2012 990R price which is approx 30% over its 2012 price. That is what I am saying. A reasonable increase for reasonable improvements, which is similar to other manufacturers in this market and economy.

I don't get your argument. I would understand if you were complaining about a 7% increase for a 2012 990 over a 2011 990. But the 1190 and the 990 are NOT the same bike, except for the name and brand they have very little in common. Looking at the components I would say that at least 95% of the parts are different.

And before making your assumptions, I'd wait until the official USA pricing is released to see what the difference really is. Obviously currency fluctuations have to be taken into consideration as well.

FYI, in Austria:
990 ADV: 16k
1190 ADV: 16.4k - a 2.5% increase!
1190 ADV-R: 17.4k - an 8.75% increase!
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:15 AM   #1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsparky View Post
Get the 990r now. Put knobbies and soft bags on it. Then buy the 1190, leave the stock tires and put on hard luggage. SIMPLE

LOL! Easy solution!
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:02 PM   #1675
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Thanks for the feedback. Rather than power output, I was interested to see a comparison of major mechanical differences / improvements between the LC8 and RC8 motors. My understanding is that there are very few parts that are common between these 2 motors.
  • differences in engine design
  • waterpump shaft seal improvements
  • alternator output
  • transmission differences (early RC8 had some notchy transmissions)
  • etc. etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocuL View Post
This comparison is from my project. RC8 is the roadracer NOT the Starbuckser.

LC8:
3000 - nil
4000 - 75 nm
5000 - 80 nm
6000 - 84 nm
7000 - 86 nm
8000 - 83 nm
9000 - 72 nm

RC8R:
3000 - 87 nm
4000 - 94 nm
5000 - 102 nm
6000 - 106 nm
7000 - 117 nm
8000 - 115 nm
9000 - 112 nm
10000 - 110 nm
10500 - 100nm

These are not accurate but still ok.

Mikael
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #1676
Jaimoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
I am not comparing bikes so much as comparing model year price increases for same models to each other.
Most new and improved models go up 2-7% over previous models years. Like the improved 2013 FJR1300 is only $300.00 dollars more than previous 2012 model http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-91462.html. Even BMW's new redesigned 1200 GSA is going from $18,350 to $21,005 US @ today's rate a 12.6% increase http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ces-51003.html.
While the difference from 2012 KTM 990R to 2013 1190R is $15,395 to 14,895euros which can be $ 18,989 @ todays exchange to $ 20,595 which it was quote at in Motorcycle online mag and the 'Bike' article http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ced-51002.html. Making it approx $4-5000.00 over current 2012 990R price which is approx 30% over its 2012 price. That is what I am saying. A reasonable increase for reasonable improvements, which is similar to other manufacturers in this market and economy.
As discussed before, you cannot estimate US prices based on Euros since some EU countries taxes bikes depending on displacement, and even between EU countries you'll find huge differences in prices because of different VAT.
There is no such such thing as a "Europe price"...

Good advice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
I'd wait until the official USA pricing is released to see what the difference really is
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:21 AM   #1677
pfy50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post
I don't get your argument. I would understand if you were complaining about a 7% increase for a 2012 990 over a 2011 990. But the 1190 and the 990 are NOT the same bike, except for the name and brand they have very little in common. Looking at the components I would say that at least 95% of the parts are different.

And before making your assumptions, I'd wait until the official USA pricing is released to see what the difference really is. Obviously currency fluctuations have to be taken into consideration as well.
Yes, Wait for a USA price when it is on a USA dealer floor. Isn't the new 1190 just an older RC8 motor placed in a LC8 frame(engine detuned and frame retuned)? Just trying to keep the flames alive
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #1678
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Uh oh....I hope this guy knows one pothole and the bike is going to explode like the old Ford Pinto!

Can't wait to hear about this! Totally psyched! Man that bike just looks awesome!


http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...2#post20045252
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:23 AM   #1679
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I spent a bit of time crawling all over the bike in Milan and talking to staff from KTM Austria. A lot of interesting stuff was covered and I will post up later (stuck in an airport at the moment......)

But the bottom line is that my 990 will be up for sale in a week or so and an 1190R is being ordered today ! For what I want - road riding, touring and 'gentle' off road - the 1190 will be fine !


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Old 11-15-2012, 02:37 AM   #1680
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