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Old 11-27-2012, 08:57 AM   #1771
coast range rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scutty View Post
Errrr no, KTM are a business and want to make money. The OC Militia can deride it all they like but the GS market is huge and KTM want a slice. 200 people on a forum are not a market for a brand new bike, no matter how often you all bleat on this thread.
Right now, KTM aren't making your dream machine, get over it
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They finally got it that we need a lighter bike to go paved back roads. They could one up the BMW 1200 gs and give us something we could really use; a light and maneuverable bike, with long service intervals, full farkle line.


The 1190 Adventure is the V-Strom owner's dream machine! Modern design features, long tank range, quality suspension, lighter and more powerful than most of the competition, and comfort for 2. The 990 Adventure was a niche bike tilted towards off-road instead of touring comfort. Now we have the R model for dirt adventure rides and the non-R for the BIG market.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:05 AM   #1772
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Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
...With all that said, I believe offering the 1190 to the GS market is a stroke of marketing genius and long overdue.
While I agree with that statement, you seem to imply that that the 1190 will be a less capable off pavement bike than the 9x0 without any evidence to support such an implication. In fact, the only published first hand riding experience so far says it's better off pavement than the 9x0- indeed (and I admit this is hard to accept) better than the SE. In any case, I think I'll reserve judgment until they get into customer hands so we can get some better informed opinions.

I can't help but feel (at least a little) that if KTM had kept the 9x0 bodywork a lot of the weeping and gnashing of teeth would not exist. Which leads one to a conclusion that maybe the biggest complainers are upset with losing the pose value of the 9x0 "look". And I admit that I regret that as well.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:27 PM   #1773
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I can't help but feel (at least a little) that if KTM had kept the 9x0 bodywork a lot of the weeping and gnashing of teeth would not exist. Which leads one to a conclusion that maybe the biggest complainers are upset with losing the pose value of the 9x0 "look". And I admit that I regret that as well.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't, had they kept the body work they would have had the familiar bitch fest about how long it takes to change the oil. You'll never please everyone.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:46 PM   #1774
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Put a quickoildrainvalve.com in your 9x0 oil tank and you can change the oil without pulling the fuel tank.
With the exception of the first service, the screen in the oil tank need only be cleaned when the valves are adjusted.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:19 PM   #1775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
So, if KTM were truly a business focused exclusively on making money, why then do they spend bazillions of Dollars/Euros/Choose-your-currency on the Dakar each year?
Errrrr because 70% of KTMs business is off-road bikes????
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:21 PM   #1776
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The King is dead, long live the King!!

Well I have just seen and sat on the 1190R and the standard bikes at the UK show, I was hoping to get to Milan but unfortunately work got in the way

Anyway as a fully committed 990 owner, (I had the S before I got my R) I am very impressed, so much so that I am buying one.

The standard bike looks nice enough and well thought out and will I think be a great road touring machine; one that will easily cope with gravel fire roads and the gentle off road stuff. I also think it will help bring in new riders to KTM, perhaps those that don't want to follow the GS herd anymore. But for me it is just not 'KTM' enough - I can't define that, but it looks a little bland and similar to other adventure bike offerings - that said I still think it will beat other bikes in the comparison tests that will start appearing in the bike magazines next year. It looks very accomplished but has somehow lost the 'edgy Red Bullness' that KTMs are famed for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h1e9oulMd8

The 'R' version though is something else and very much what KTM is about - it feels and looks like my enduro bike with the thicker handlebars and the fantastic orange frame.

In terms of ergonomics, when you stand on the pegs, it feels natural and that you could easily steer with your knees which are closer together than on my 990. I can also get the balls of my feet on the floor (5' 10" and 31 inch inseam) as opposed to my tip toes on the 990, which feels better. Also the seat feels more supportive, but only a 2 hour ride would confirm that.

I think it is a natural development of what we have been used to and something that has not lost its Dakar heritage or kudos. The KTM staff on the stand had ridden the pre-production models and praised the power delivery and massively improved braking compared to the 990 - something we all know could have been better.

It will need the Powerparts alloy bash plate and the Akra exhaust, I would also change the sprockets to something better, and the front mudguard would look better in white, but these are minor niggles.

It is a bike that is there to be used and abused; if you are ruled by your head then get the standard bike - you won't be disappointed and your wife, partner or special friend will say that looks like a nice sensible bike.

But if you are ruled by your heart then the 'R' version is for you and a whole new world of adventure awaits.....................
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #1777
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I hope they make enough of these things... I simply can't wait. I hope it's priced reasonably as well. It'd be a shame to see such a great machine priced out of the reach of those of us who will actually use it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #1778
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Thanks for sharing that news DavidD!
I, like others, am hoping that our brothers across the pond will keep those ride reports coming, maybe even a few photos as the first of the year gets rollin'!
I'm totally excited about this bike, and I would be a new fan of KTM if the price is right and the ride is what I think it might be...this would keep my 955 Tiger company in the stable.

Bring on the knobbies, oh, and the ride reports!
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:59 PM   #1779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scutty View Post
Errrrr because 70% of KTMs business is off-road bikes????
Well, Scutty, that is precisely my point…

The 950/990 and, soon, the 1190 all address the “Adventouring market” (KTM’s terminology, not mine).

At the other end, KTM has done a remarkably good job of offering for sale purpose-built production models tailored for each and every micro-slice of the competitive dirt bike and dualsport market segments. (To me, this is the 70% segment to which you refer)

But they offer no single-cylinder, long distance (>200 miles between gas), off-road adventure/rally model that exploits their success at the Dakar.

So, in this sense, their investment in the Dakar is simply wasted or, at very least, under utilized. Applying the Dakar moniker to the big twins is little more than marketing hyperbole and I posit that the true dirt bike market segments simply don’t care much about the Dakar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpbarlow View Post
While I agree with that statement, you seem to imply that that the 1190 will be a less capable off pavement bike than the 9x0…
Re-reading my comment, I can see why you might have gotten that impression, but I really didn’t mean to imply anything about their relative off-pavement capabilities…

If anything, I would have implied that the 1190 will almost certainly be better on-pavement than the 9x0 bikes.

Off-pavement, I suspect the 1190 and 9x0 will be pretty much in the same ballpark in all but the more technical off-road sections.

Notice the distinctions: On-pavement, Off-pavement (i.e., gravel roads, jeep trails), Off-road (trails, gravels washes, sand dunes, etc.). "On-Road", to me, implies both paved and gravel roads.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 PM   #1780
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Heart vs head

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidD View Post

It is a bike that is there to be used and abused; if you are ruled by your head then get the standard bike - you won't be disappointed and your wife, partner or special friend will say that looks like a nice sensible bike.

But if you are ruled by your heart then the 'R' version is for you and a whole new world of adventure awaits.....................
Thanks for your report. I went with my heart; I am supposed to take delivery in February (and the GS goes).
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:45 AM   #1781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scutty View Post
Errrrr because 70% of KTMs business is off-road bikes????
You answered my own train of thought. They already have the bike 690R and some of the parts(Rally development). If there only thrust is to make money then they should also be attacking BMW's middleweight market also; with a 690 ADV. R. There is a market out there and not just us posers here on the forum, and it seems to be recognized by other companies coming into or into the middleweight market(Triumph,Kawasaki,Suzuki,Honda,Aprilia,Yamah a). YES or NO?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:59 AM   #1782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyD View Post
But they offer no single-cylinder, long distance (>200 miles between gas), off-road adventure/rally model

all you need is a late model 690 and throw on rally kit and tanks and better suspension too perhaps
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:22 AM   #1783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MookieBlaylock View Post
all you need is a late model 690 and throw on rally kit and tanks and better suspension too perhaps
Yes, it is a start, they already have the development (LC4 640,690), larger tankage, wider gear ratios, A strengthened subframe for load carrying, increased maintenance/durability schedule. They are almost there; just package it and market it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:46 AM   #1784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfy50 View Post
...They are almost there; just package it and market it.
Bingo! Package it as a Hard Parts Kit for the 690R and it would be good to go with no homologation expenses. Duh!

MookieBlayLoc, if you're referring to the Rally Raid kits, I think they carry the fuel too high. If you're talking about official KTM Rallye Replica parts, they are unobtainium from what I can tell at any price; however, KTM has the tooling for those bits somewhere...all they have to do is make some more piece parts. Dottori might be a suitable alternative, but that doesn't address the wide ratio transmission issue.

I'm dying to reshuffle my KTM deck to include an 1190, 690 Adventure and 500 EXC.

Here's to hoping the 1190 is an unmitigated sales success. Then, perhaps, KTM will have throw us some crumbs.

****
UPDATE 22-Dec-2012: RallyRaid UK has announced their so-called "EVO 2" kit which appears to address my above stated concern about carrying the fuel too high. For more details, refer to: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832366
*******
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BillyD screwed with this post 12-22-2012 at 10:10 AM
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:21 AM   #1785
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Price In Oz

Looking at the places where the official price for the 1190 Adventure has been released (UK, Eu, US) all of them seem to have had a 25-30% hike over the previous 990 model.

Following that (possibly faulty) logic and bearing in mind that the current retail for a 990 in Aus, on Bikesales.com.au is around the A$22,000 are we looking at A$28,000+ for an 1190 Adventure, before even adding any options?

I have a deposit down for an 1190 Adventure but if the price is up there are at that kind of level, i.e. way over A$30,000 when you have added panniers and an Akrapovic pipe then I will probably have to pull out.

I love the bike and I really, really want one but KTM will need to be vary careful with their pricing if they are to sell many of these in Oz. Having said that, it maybe that they will be like a Ferrari in that they will only ever import 1 less than they can sell at an inflated price and there will be enough people prepared to pay north of 30K to justify the pricing.

Here's hoping that they price them to compete and not as a niche player for those with big money. The other problem with such a big hike if it happens is that they risk alienating the 990 fans who will be looking to upgrade/buy a new bike.

Thoughts from the floor?

P.S. I am aware that is not a straight read across in pricing policy from the RoW to Aus and that factors such as import duties and transportation costs vary everywhere but you would have thought that with the strength of the A$ right now they could afford to keep the price down and still make a good profit. Here's hoping....
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