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Old 05-20-2013, 06:31 AM   #3226
umitc
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Originally Posted by Scutty View Post
Do the sensors need to be reset on tyre change maybe?
I don't think so.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:23 PM   #3227
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I just read the 1190r test in the latest Australian Motorcycle News. A tad positive one would say. So who's going to be the first to post the 'Downfall' Hitler rant parody on this? From the BMW side.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:45 PM   #3228
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Originally Posted by guzzi4v View Post
I just read the 1190r test in the latest Australian Motorcycle News. A tad positive one would say. So who's going to be the first to post the 'Downfall' Hitler rant parody on this? From the BMW side.
Honestly I doubt the 1190 will make a huge dent in BMW sales. I have had a look at the new GS and doubt I will buy one, but they are all being sold pretty quickly. Too bad the new 1190 is not in the States yet!
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:13 AM   #3229
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1190 "T" impression, part 2

Okay, finishing this off (it started here.)

So the motor seemed to offer Ducati levels of engagement and - as I forgot to mention - felt very smooth also when just whispering along. What else?

Second strongest impression: the way the chassis felt. Quite unusual in my experience. Long and low - even on those tall suspenders. Won't turn like a hypersports. But those 120/70 and 170/60 tyres felt quite steeply profiled, and the bike was keen to fall off the top of the tyre and hook into the couple of med-speed turns on the route. Sport-bike like in that respect: it wanted to hit apexes. Again, on that narrower rear rubber very different feel from the Multistrada. More old-school, but no less exciting for that. Gave the impression it would track very true through a bumpy turn.

Very hard to get a sense of the suspension on such a route, but certainly it did nothing wrong. The rear spring is quite stiff and that helps keep the bike settled. Front felt softer but nicely sprung and KTM's claim the bike would not ride like a rocking horse seemed justified.

Nice brakes with good initial bite.

Seat on low I could flat-foot (a few mm under 6ft, inseam about 32in). Yes, felt like I was sitting down a bit in the bike. I would use that for commuting or soft/slippery stuff and probably the high setting for road trips.

Airflow management I thought impressive. It appears the screen moves on two tracks, so that you can vary the height and how close it is. I set it low on the forward track, and there seemed to be no turbulence at all but some vortex whistling.

Handlebars were notably narrower than those of the Multi, GS and Stelvio.

The first time I tried the seat I thought it too narrow for long-distance comfort - not so much the base, but the way it was padded. Nothing an upholsterer couldn't fix. Presumably built that way to aid moving around when standing. Second try I was happier, for some reason.

Pillion also thought the seat a bit narrow but was happy with the peg placement. I'd though the Multi would be much better for peg placement, but she said that if anything, it was not as good. Multi pannier mounts caught her heels (she had bike boots on). Didn't like the Multi seat as well either. Said she could see the instruments over my shoulders - which she likes. Very positive about the bike generally. She is about 5'5" and 120lbs. One possible issue: forward part of grab rail intruded on leg space, just a touch.

I really liked the instruments. Great to have the sweep tacho, the speedo was easy to find and read, and the various coloured lights added warmth and readability. Very well thought through. By contrast, the Multi's monochrome dash seemed cluttered and dull, the bar tacho hard to read at a glance.

I tried the throttle in Street and Sport modes. Street was very soft. Low-end fuelling was so good that Sport felt fine in heavy traffic - although I would certainly choose Street for a peak-hour commute.

I liked the switchgear and even the turn signal. Felt very solid, and the four-way arrows for the left-screen menu operated with satisfying and heavy clicks. Turn switch would be just a matter of confidence. You don't move it far, and so it is really a matter of understanding that if it reaches the end of its travel then the blinker will illuminate.

So after two test-rides, it is fair to say I'm impressed.

Issues? The main one for me - and it won't bother most people - is that the local importer has ordered only the optioned-up model with the electric suspension, or so it appears. As in some other markets. Perhaps that is all KTM is building at present. On that front, I took a few measurements, which I will report in a fresh post.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:34 AM   #3230
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1190 "T" impression, part 3: rear sag numbers




I like the idea of electric suspension adjustment, but I am not so impressed that I want to give up options for tuning. KTM's version offers only four preload settings, which is disappointing. But it also offers only three rider-selectable damping settings. While that is probably plenty if the test-riders did a good job, it removes the ability to fine-tune with the clickers for a heavier or lighter spring, or even for an adjustment of the preload base (assuming that is possible).

Perhaps no adjustment would be needed for different spring options. We don't know.

That matters to me because I would want to set the bike up mainly with two-up riding in mind. So, I am not the typical purchaser. Nevertheless, with a manual suspension set-up, that is no problem: purchase a suitable spring and adjust to suit. With the electric stuff, there might be a problem.

So, if there are incentives to stick with the stock springs, how well does the electric system cope with extra loads? I took along a tape measure, and after we rode the bike measured rear sag for some different set-ups - ably assisted by Causeway KTM salesman Brock.

Results (rider 82kg/180lb in gear but no helmet; passenger about 60kg/132lb, same):

Unladen sag, solo setting: 25mm.

With rider only, solo setting: 55mm.

With rider and pillion, solo setting: 75mm.

With rider and pillion, two-up setting: 65mm.

With rider and pillion, two-up with luggage setting: 60mm.


What to make of those figures? IMO, the 160N/mm spring KTM has fitted represents about the best conceivable compromise over the full range of possible load conditions for a rider and passenger of roughly average weights.

Assuming the claimed figure of 190mm for overall travel is accurate, the typically suggested optimal laden sag of one-third available travel would be 63mm.

Thus, KTM has specified:

- lots of unladen sag (compensation for the heavy spring, but will help resist topping out).

- for a solo rider, a little less sag than optimal (but still plenty). Spring will feel firmish.

- for two-up, a little more sag than optimal (but just barely) on the two setting, or a little less on the two-plus luggage setting.

- for two-up with luggage: close to optimal lightly loaded; saggy for two-up expedition loads (as you'd expect).

- for one-up expedition loads: plenty of spring.

I've seen a couple of press reports criticise this KTM for lacking compliance at the rear. Of course, the testers had been riding solo, likely with no luggage. KTM has had the guts to fit a spring covering the load spectrum.

For me? Hard to know from a short test ride, but certainly I'd like the option of fitting a firmer spring or raising the preload base if I were setting out on a two-up tour. That is not so much about resistance to bottoming, as about preserving rear ride-height so that the steering remains light and precise. However, I know most people wouldn't bother, and for them, KTM seems to have done a great job (provided they are of roughly average weight ).
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:02 AM   #3231
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This is nice the fact that you go out and calculate it! I have the bike only a day now and I can say Electronic suspension is great. I commute today with the luggage and the pillion my beautiful wife. I am 75 kg (11 stone) my wife is 60 kg (9.50 stone) and we did have our computers her make up a few books and a jacket (all 5kg each bag) street mode, street suspension,two up with luggage MAN IT HANDLES LIKE A SPORTS BIKE! Take it to comfort you don't feel the bumbs and the bad road and SPEED BUMBS . Drop my wife to work and travel myself to my workplace, sport mode, street suspension ,1 rider with luggage what a difference I can say the bikes lowers it self ! When you put it up to two pillion with luggage it rises back again.

My dealer told me that don't pass the 6500 rpm for the first 600 miles. And the major problem he notice so far from buyers is the chain! Check you chain in the first 200 miles as its sags and get loose !

DON'T TURN THE TRACTION CONTROL OFF, SHE REALLY LIKE WHEELEES
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Old 05-21-2013, 07:16 AM   #3232
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Ok a teaser from me only upgrade is boxes and crash bars! Also electronic package

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Old 05-21-2013, 07:22 AM   #3233
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I did have a lot complements to the bike already the boxes really complement the look of the bike . I think the boxes are great ..




Tease tease tease
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:49 PM   #3234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moronic View Post



I like the idea of electric suspension adjustment, but I am not so impressed that I want to give up options for tuning. KTM's version offers only four preload settings, which is disappointing. But it also offers only three rider-selectable damping settings. While that is probably plenty if the test-riders did a good job, it removes the ability to fine-tune with the clickers for a heavier or lighter spring, or even for an adjustment of the preload base (assuming that is possible).

Perhaps no adjustment would be needed for different spring options. We don't know.

That matters to me because I would want to set the bike up mainly with two-up riding in mind. So, I am not the typical purchaser. Nevertheless, with a manual suspension set-up, that is no problem: purchase a suitable spring and adjust to suit. With the electric stuff, there might be a problem.

So, if there are incentives to stick with the stock springs, how well does the electric system cope with extra loads? I took along a tape measure, and after we rode the bike measured rear sag for some different set-ups - ably assisted by Causeway KTM salesman Brock.

Results (rider 82kg/180lb in gear but no helmet; passenger about 60kg/132lb, same):

Unladen sag, solo setting: 25mm.

With rider only, solo setting: 55mm.

With rider and pillion, solo setting: 75mm.

With rider and pillion, two-up setting: 65mm.

With rider and pillion, two-up with luggage setting: 60mm.


What to make of those figures? IMO, the 160N/mm spring KTM has fitted represents about the best conceivable compromise over the full range of possible load conditions for a rider and passenger of roughly average weights.

Assuming the claimed figure of 190mm for overall travel is accurate, the typically suggested optimal laden sag of one-third available travel would be 63mm.

Thus, KTM has specified:

- lots of unladen sag (compensation for the heavy spring, but will help resist topping out).

- for a solo rider, a little less sag than optimal (but still plenty). Spring will feel firmish.

- for two-up, a little more sag than optimal (but just barely) on the two setting, or a little less on the two-plus luggage setting.

- for two-up with luggage: close to optimal lightly loaded; saggy for two-up expedition loads (as you'd expect).

- for one-up expedition loads: plenty of spring.

I've seen a couple of press reports criticise this KTM for lacking compliance at the rear. Of course, the testers had been riding solo, likely with no luggage. KTM has had the guts to fit a spring covering the load spectrum.

For me? Hard to know from a short test ride, but certainly I'd like the option of fitting a firmer spring or raising the preload base if I were setting out on a two-up tour. That is not so much about resistance to bottoming, as about preserving rear ride-height so that the steering remains light and precise. However, I know most people wouldn't bother, and for them, KTM seems to have done a great job (provided they are of roughly average weight ).
Interested to see that you have done some measurements. I have now put around 1400 miles on my 1190 and absolutely love the bike but I am also considering changing the spring. I ride almost entirely solo and am on the light side of typical weight for a guy. With a tank bag and my winter riding kit I measure the rear sag on the lightest setting at 52mm. I prefer my bikes to be set up on the soft side so I would like to try a bit less preload on the spring.
I have contacted KTM both through my local dealer and direct with the factory to see if there is any manual adjustment but have had little response.
Looking at the parts breakdown for the WP EDS rear shock there are 2 spacers under the spring which suggests that there may be some adjustment. The manual also describes the 160N spring as "medium" which also suggests that there may be options.
If anyone with more KTM experience can comment, I would be glad to of the input. There is also a possibility that the spring will settle a bit with a few more miles so I'll check the rear sag again in another 1000 miles.

I concur with you regarding the road handling, I finished the running in on a track day and was so impressed with how easy it was to get to the edge of the tyres and how well it held a line through a turn.

The 1190 is my first "adventure" style bike and feels odd stepping off my R1. I reckon it will take another 2000 miles to truly bond with it but I have not regretted the buying decision for a second.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:06 PM   #3235
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Am I correct in assuming that the rear spring is progressively wound ? Also The single figure will most likely work out OK for a slightly larger male , which these days is more common . My Multi Strada , which has the standard suspension,is way undersprung for two up riding and just ok single. When I rode the KTM it felt very similar to my Multi in the front , much firmer in the rear which I preferred.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:36 AM   #3236
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Originally Posted by lotus7 View Post
Interested to see that you have done some measurements. I have now put around 1400 miles on my 1190 and absolutely love the bike but I am also considering changing the spring. I ride almost entirely solo and am on the light side of typical weight for a guy. With a tank bag and my winter riding kit I measure the rear sag on the lightest setting at 52mm. I prefer my bikes to be set up on the soft side so I would like to try a bit less preload on the spring.
I have contacted KTM both through my local dealer and direct with the factory to see if there is any manual adjustment but have had little response.
Looking at the parts breakdown for the WP EDS rear shock there are 2 spacers under the spring which suggests that there may be some adjustment. The manual also describes the 160N spring as "medium" which also suggests that there may be options.
If anyone with more KTM experience can comment, I would be glad to of the input. There is also a possibility that the spring will settle a bit with a few more miles so I'll check the rear sag again in another 1000 miles.
Good question on spring options for the electric shock. Yes, a downside of KTM's spring choice is that the rear will be firmer than necessary for light riders solo. BTW: I doubt you'll notice an improvement from reducing preload alone: that will merely drop the rear of the bike and take the edge off the steering. If you want softer, you will need to fit a softer spring, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bails View Post
Am I correct in assuming that the rear spring is progressively wound ? Also The single figure will most likely work out OK for a slightly larger male , which these days is more common . My Multi Strada , which has the standard suspension,is way undersprung for two up riding and just ok single. When I rode the KTM it felt very similar to my Multi in the front , much firmer in the rear which I preferred.
No, the spring is 160N/mm straight wound, and fitted directly between swingarm and frame with no progressive linkage.

You are right: the stock KTM spring will be much, much better for big blokes than the 2010-12 Multi's spring.

However, it appears from the parts fiche alluded to by Lotus7 that the shock is a fairly basic type with the damping adjustable only on rebound. In theory anyway, several steps below the Ohlins TTX unit supplied with the Multi.
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:02 AM   #3237
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Interesting I believe the new Ducati suspension has progressively wound spring and I also understand the BMW GS is in a similar camp. Though the BM is 6,000 more expensive this difference starts to shrink when you add in the extras and quality differences.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:20 AM   #3238
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Due to the fact the discussion is related to springs and suspensions, i take the chance to ask the owners of the R version (which doesn't have the electronic suspension) if it's easy to adjust manually the suspension.
How much time it takes and if the manual contains all info about such adjustments.

I am owner of a GS adv. with the electronic suspension but not so happy due to the fact it broke the electronic part and was not possible to perform any changes in the settings. Luckily was changed with White Power improved version (the whole suspension) under "good will warranty" but still there is a psychological trauma that might occur again...

So, I am really interested in changing to 1190 adventure R, but would be nice to know in reality if it's easy to adjust the suspension.
Morning time i might be alone and afternoon with my girlfriend and luggage (this happens frequently).
I am used to my GS adv. that i just press a button, therefore my concern.

Thanks a lot guys and hope to receive good feedback in my first post
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:28 AM   #3239
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GorgeD. I have a 1190 (not R) with manual suspension, I may be able to answer some of your questions.

The rear preload takes seconds to adjust, the handbook has recommendations for the number of turns of the adjuster knob for different loads. The reabound damping screw is easily visable, not that I've changed this yet as still running in and only ridden solo at the moment.

One odd thing is if you buy it with the electronic suspension the centre stand is included which is not the case with manual suspension on the road version.

XsilverGS screwed with this post 05-22-2013 at 05:34 AM
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:49 AM   #3240
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2013 BMW 1200 GS (water cooled) Touring Edition..... 13859.
heated grips
dynamic suspension
tyre pressure monitors
traction control
abs options
Cruise control
heated Grips
riding modes


2013 KTM Adventure 1190 Crashbars & Boxes .......... 13899.

Riding modes
Electronic suspention
Tyre pressure Monitors
Abs (offroad,and combine)
crash bars
Boxes.

this is to you guys to have a little look which one is more expensive?
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