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Old 02-16-2013, 05:00 PM   #196
FreeTheBeast OP
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I've got the bike apart. It's getting 800cc cylinders, 5 speed gearbox, and a lightened flywheel. Oh, and I've got a bunch of bigger jets for the Dellortos. I hope that it will be a better hunk of junk soon. It will be somewhat better this season than it was last year.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:46 PM   #197
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Good Stuff, I have run my R90 for a season and its still holding together.....never be a threat to the rest of the pre 76 500cc+ class I run in but good fun. On a good day can get past the Harley 1000's and Triumph Bonnies.... they don't like it.
Have you looked at running 336 cam ? ( works for me) I'm looking at lighter components for the head and running higher revs. The Ignitech ignition I run has a rev limiter you can dial in so no looking at a tach ( which seem to read wrong anyway)
Could also be worth looking at later R80 heads with the D port.
I had a mate make sleeves for the flywheel bolts so as to mate up the lighter flywheel,could be a good time to get a big tube shaft if you haven't already got one.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:14 AM   #198
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Laugh That's a lot of stuff!

You've got several suggestions there. I might investigate bigger valves, but that's probably about it. I need to keep things ($) in perspective. I thought about a racing cam, but then was told the most benefit is at higher RPMs. The track where I do all my racing (New Hampshire Motor Speedway, Loudon, NH USA) is a smaller track with only 1 straight. I would probably benefit more with the stock cam for lower RPM torque given the corners and track layout. A bigger, straighter track might be a different story.


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Old 02-17-2013, 06:25 AM   #199
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Bike looks awesome!!! And the track looks like a blast. Reminds me of this one.

 photo BarberOverview_zps6bc0073e.jpg

Big fun. See you at SB.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:46 AM   #200
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[QUOTE=FreeTheBeast;20744555]You've got several suggestions there. I might investigate bigger valves, but that's probably about it. I need to keep things ($) in perspective. I thought about a racing cam, but then was told the most benefit is at higher RPMs. The track where I do all my racing (New Hampshire Motor Speedway, Loudon, NH USA) is a smaller track with only 1 straight. I would probably benefit more with the stock cam for lower RPM torque given the corners and track layout. A bigger, straighter track might be a different story.

Despite all the stories out there of sport cams benefitting only high rpm's there are many inmates here that report a very different story. Sport cams are midrange cams more than anything else. Many inmates have reported the same results. Dr. Curve is another source to counter stories of well known tuners reporting they make less hp under 6k rpm than a 308. I have never seen one do anything close to that. Sport cams make a lot more power than 308's from around 2500 and above rpm. Dr. Curve reports through his own experience that great midrange compared to other cams then available was the reason he ran a sport cam. A sport cam would do you a lot of good anywhere except for a parade. Some now available cam might do you better. That I don't know. I do know of people racing sport cams against cams only recently available and doing just fine in the power department.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #201
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Some time over the next 2 months I will be putting up dyno charts showing the difference that a 320 degree cam from motoren Israel make on my otherwise unchanged 90/6. It will be interesting to see what difference this cam change makes.

Motoren Israel do sell a variety of small seal cams suitable for a /5.

It would be useful if anyone had before and after Dynos showing what a 336 does, rather than all these subjective views.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #202
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And dyno runs aren't subjective? IMO your nuts if you think they are not. Wheel dyno runs are best at top hp figures. There's a lot more to cams than top end. The further you look from peak power, the more the operator and dyno matter. How and when was the throttle applied? When and how was the brake used? How hot was the oil? What weight oil? How much air was in the tire? How was it strapped down to the dyno wheel? The list goes on and on.

Just swapping cams? I don't think that is a fair cam comparison. The engine's setup might just happen to favor one of the cams. IMO, each cam should be fine tuned a bit. It might not matter but it might make a big diff.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:54 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
And dyno runs aren't subjective? IMO your nuts if you think they are not. Wheel dyno runs are best at top hp figures. There's a lot more to cams than top end. The further you look from peak power, the more the operator and dyno matter. How and when was the throttle applied? When and how was the brake used? How hot was the oil? What weight oil? How much air was in the tire? How was it strapped down to the dyno wheel? The list goes on and on.

Just swapping cams? I don't think that is a fair cam comparison. The engine's setup might just happen to favor one of the cams. IMO, each cam should be fine tuned a bit. It might not matter but it might make a big diff.

Same dyno same operator still is better than anyone's butt dyno.
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:10 PM   #204
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FTB - is that a chopped stock front fender or did you buy that aftermarket?

Looks good, want something similar for my project.

TIA
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Old 02-17-2013, 02:14 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by chasbmw View Post
Same dyno same operator still is better than anyone's butt dyno.

I'd be interested as my r90 racer is pretty stock apart from 1mm off the heads,336 and 36 dells.
D port heads might be next on my to do list.
On the 3 tracks I have been on, I find the 3.0:1 is good but on the smaller tracks I don't use 5th so recently dropped to a 3.2:1
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:05 PM   #206
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QUOTE=chasbmw;20747185]Same dyno same operator still is better than anyone's butt dyno.[/QUOTE]

My point is that lap times often trump dyno runs. The dyno day's champion is most often NOT the fastest bike on the street or the track. Even at the drag strip!
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:44 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by FreeTheBeast View Post



I've got the bike apart. It's getting 800cc cylinders, 5 speed gearbox, and a lightened flywheel. Oh, and I've got a bunch of bigger jets for the Dellortos. I hope that it will be a better hunk of junk soon. It will be somewhat better this season than it was last year.
I forgot to mention the five speed and lightened flywheel. If the rules let you use a five speed I would do my damnedest to get by with slipping a late model clutch and flywheel in there. WAY better setup over a lightened flywheel on all fronts. Especially the clutch itself! It's were I would start with a vintage racer! That and a simplex timing chain. You can get by with those around here. They look more vintage if you grind the fins off the cover! Well, actually I would start with a close ratio gearset but that's just me. Good luck!
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:22 AM   #208
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QUOTE=chasbmw;20747185]Same dyno same operator still is better than anyone's butt dyno.
My point is that lap times often trump dyno runs. The dyno day's champion is most often NOT the fastest bike on the street or the track. Even at the drag strip![/QUOTE]

lap times??? but different cams will suit different tracks................which I think was the point that the OP made.

I agree that you can look at a dyno chart in a stupid way, just seeking to maximise BHP or you can end up with an engine that has the best trade off between power/torque and revs giving you an engine that has good midrange as well as an improvement in power.

Still want to see those 336 dyno charts....
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:52 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lounge View Post
FTB - is that a chopped stock front fender or did you buy that aftermarket?

Looks good, want something similar for my project.

TIA
Hey Lounge,

That is a cut down stock fender. The angle that it is mounted doesn't align with the tire properly, but there you go. Maybe I could try to bend the mounting points a little bit...or just leave it alone. :~)


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FreeTheBeast screwed with this post 02-18-2013 at 07:08 AM Reason: spelling correction
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:15 AM   #210
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Thanks - looks like an easy fix.

Great looking scoot.
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