When did we stop appreciating...

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by Wuwei

My interpretation of the OP's rant is he thinks a lot of folks don't understand the visceral side of riding, because they don't feel the wind, sweat when its hot, freeze when its cold, get wet when it rains, or get lost on the backroads because their GPS is steering. I understand that feeling. There is something to be said for being in closer touch with the basics of what you are doing, which is flying down the road, dirt, or track at high enough speeds to be a little scary and maybe a little bit uncomfortable and hopefully very thrilling. All the modern doodads can insulate you from the basic experience to the point that you feel like you're in a Toyota Camry--makes sense, lots of comfort, no thrills.

BINGO!

...and the rant wasn't meant to be anti-tech. It's really meant to say...if you want all the comforts of a cage, drive a cage and stop whining about Bikes not having all the creature comforts of a cage or technology.

I guess I simply appreciate the purity of motorcycling from days gone by when real motorcyclists were willing to sacrifice things for the joy of riding. (I never said some of the improvements made weren't good...just that they aren't necessary)
Too many of todays "Men" whine about things that MEN shouldn't really give a shit about.
It's about...MOTORCYCLING in its most basic form and being able to appreciate it, with or without frilly lacey underpants.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

BINGO!

...and the rant wasn't meant to be anti-tech. It's really meant to say...if you want all the comforts of a cage, drive a cage and stop whining about Bikes not having all the creature comforts of a cage or technology.

I guess I simply appreciate the purity of motorcycling from days gone by when real motorcyclists were willing to sacrifice things for the joy of riding. (I never said some of the improvements made weren't good...just that they aren't necessary)
Too many of todays "Men" whine about things that MEN shouldn't really give a shit about.
It's about...MOTORCYCLING in its most basic form and being able to appreciate it, with or without frilly lacey underpants.

I can appreciate the raw side, but spend 12 hours on the road the raw side gets old. IMO, yours may vary.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by TrashCan

If you never had it, how could you lose it???

The times they are a changing...

Not every body grew up ridng with 2 extra spark plugs to change on the road when their 2 stroke fouled one.

This was in the days when 30wt was used for pre-mix.

Kick start only...

Let the past be the past.

But sometimes the past is fun. Just ask any SR500 owner. A bike from the recent past that imitates the further past, but with good electrics. Sometimes the throwbacks are really fun, new ones need to be made sometimes to deal with cost. Guys making the old Viragos like Vincents (Doc's Chops) just makes sense, who can afford a Vincent? Almost anyone can afford an old Virago. Then there are the new Triumphs made to be a bit more like old Triumphs.

Sad part is us two stroke lovers just can't do that anymore. You have to buy an old two stroke to have a two stroke. I'm starting to root around for an old Bultaco to make a street legal two stroke single flat tracker. It may come down to buying the lowest buck Alpina which just doesn't have the desirability of any others, and doing it up.

I guess I just don't appreciate all the new technology because it doesn't do anything I want to have done. If I ever want it or if it does what I want on a bike I want I will appreciate it then. The talk of some better off road ABS designs sounds kind of interesting, the Husky with anti-lock only on the front sounds more like what I'd be comfortable with having on my dual sport.

[Wuwei]

I guess I simply appreciate the purity of motorcycling from days gone by when real motorcyclists were willing to sacrifice things for the joy of riding. (I never said some of the improvements made weren't good...just that they aren't necessary)

My dad got me riding early, but a friend of his was really my inspiration. He would arrive at our house, before I could drive or ride, on some completely unsuitable mount, like an old CZ dirt bike, having ridden all day through a rainstorm for 300 miles to get there, and then he would talk about bikes and the adventures he had. My dad and his friends were riding back in the 50s on things like ex-police Indians or bikes that nobody wanted and they scrounged up for free. They didn't wear helmets, or have cell phones, or electric starters. The bikes would break down, they would crash, and they'd keep going for the fun of it, and arrive with bugs in their teeth, filthy, sweaty clothes, and a smile from ear to ear. Somewhere I've got a great old b&w shot of my dad and mom on their ex-police Indian and big smiles like they were having the time of their lives. Those smiles are what it's all about really.

[TrashCan]

Originally Posted by markk53

But sometimes the past is fun. Just ask any SR500 owner. A bike from the recent past that imitates the further past, but with good electrics. Sometimes the throwbacks are really fun, new ones need to be made sometimes to deal with cost. Guys making the old Viragos like Vincents (Doc's Chops) just makes sense, who can afford a Vincent? Almost anyone can afford an old Virago. Then there are the new Triumphs made to be a bit more like old Triumphs.

Sad part is us two stroke lovers just can't do that anymore. You have to buy an old two stroke to have a two stroke. I'm starting to root around for an old Bultaco to make a street legal two stroke single flat tracker. It may come down to buying the lowest buck Alpina which just doesn't have the desirability of any others, and doing it up.

I guess I just don't appreciate all the new technology because it doesn't do anything I want to have done. If I ever want it or if it does what I want on a bike I want I will appreciate it then. The talk of some better off road ABS designs sounds kind of interesting, the Husky with anti-lock only on the front sounds more like what I'd be comfortable with having on my dual sport.

I am talking about a daily rider. 50 to 5000 miles in the same week.

Old bikes are cool and fun, I would rather ride than wrench.
YMMV.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Griffin44

While I think I understand the OP's sentiments and tend to agree with them (I tour on a sport bike fer chrissakes) I try to practice the "to each their own" mentality. Even when I don't understand the attraction of a 2 wheel winnebago I do try to cut the rider of one some slack and realize he/she has a different take on the whole thing than I do.




I dunnno, life isn't all about seeking comfort. Being slightly uncomfortable isn't a bad thing at all. It keeps you awake and focused and tends to be better for your overall fitness. And, I often sit on the floor, crosslegged in front of the couch. Much better for my back and I get to stretch my hamstrings and such.



I agree.



Someone cracked about the "Golden Era" and I hear some folks around here talk about the '70's as being that. Not for me. I rode in the '70's and my experience now is far preferable to my experiences then.

The golden era was less about the actual bikes than about the general environment. Lots of new incredible bikes at great prices is one thing. Just consider the Yamaha DT250 versus the Huskys for the average new rider. Then there was the GL1000 versus most any other bike for a smooth touring platform. Literally dozens of models from the Japanese manufacturers.

Then there was the off road riding. It was almost wide open. I credit the advent of idiots who didn't care about properties who would tear up an entire area rather than just ride the trail that was there. That along with the law suit happy idiots who wouldn't accept responsibility for their own actions when riding on others' property killed off the off road market as it was in the early to mid 70s. Everything started closing up.

That was why the 70s were the golden years. Lots of bikes, good prices, lots of places to ride.

There is no doubt the bikes now are far better. Back in the early 70s you needed a kick starter alternative due to lack of reliability of the starters and the charging systems to do the job. Now electric starters are showing up on racing off road bikes. Equipmentwise these are pretty darn good times, but the prices are quite high and in off roading the options for riding are really limited.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by TrashCan

I am talking about a daily rider. 50 to 5000 miles in the same week.

Old bikes are cool and fun, I would rather ride than wrench.
YMMV.

So am I with 45,000 miles on my KLX from doing a 60 mile one way commute and having ridden quite a lot of times on a 20 mile commute to work on the SR some years back.miles a week was nothing. Granted a Gold Wing or Concours would be more comfortable, but they just wouldn't have made Ohio SR164 and 646 near as much fun, much less that few miles on the gravel on the way to them.

And a wrench really hasn't been all that necessary since about 1975 on the Japanese bikes and about 1983 on Harleys (buy out and evos). You have to go back to the 60s to really get into lack of reliability, spelled L-U-C-A-S in English. A lot of cars weren't that hot back then either. In 1980 anything over 35,000 miles was considered high mileage, 60,000 would be a "no sale" for the most part. On the other hand there are a whole lot of 1975-1982 Honda 750s among a lot of other Japanese bikes still running fine with no wrenching really needed. It's all about riding the bikes, not letting them sit and rot in a garage. That is what destroys bikes for sure. Even a modern bike won't stand up to that with fuel turning to varnish and electrical connectors corroding into non-connectivity.

[LuciferMutt]

Motorcycling is a lot more self-correcting than driving is...

You can survive a lot of bad car crashes if you drive like a distracted moron.

You probably won't survive for long if you ride like a distracted moron.

In general, though, I agree, that the technology being put on motorcycles is getting way out of hand. As a result, so are the prices!!!! Ten years ago, the average econo-box was $10,000.

Nowadays, it's pretty difficult to get a new motorcycle (that isn't a 250) for less than that. Yes, there are still some, but they are getting rare quickly!

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Pantah

Yes Dakez, the motorcycle salesman from Oregon, thinks he has all the answers. That's why he dominates this forum with the intensity his boss would rather him deploy on sales. But he has an excuse. He's probably making progress with using the web to help his business. Who else does that well? It's an art and he's trying to find it I think.

But the Old guy is the OP! He's the most ancient 45 year-old I've seen here. The fellow came of age long after motorcycles were already made friendly by Mr. Honda.

I am 63, and I love the new bikes. I will never have to kick start a fking BSA 500 on a single track side slope again! ALL of my bikes have a magic button. Some have a tough seat, but nothing a sheepskin and Nike compression shorts can't handle. Gotta' have the heated gear, though, and at least a flyscreen. I donno about traction control. My dual sports are manual, and I like those moments when I can kick the back out and gather it in with the throttle and peg weighting. But most of the time I just putt around. I could be on a scooter...

In the heat I wear the same gear as I do in the cold, less my heated liner. Gortex all the time.

I tried a T shirt in AZ one summer. The windblast killed me. The Gortex shell was back on after a couple fuel loads. The Dakar guys are pretty instructional about that.

I ALWAYS use a Camelbak. I sip regularly. If I don't a cramp often shows up. A few sips and the cramp is gone in minutes. Never had to even stop.

The broader your riding horizons, the more you learn about what works for you. There is no one size fits all. Of course we all know that. Even Dakez..

Now that is one thing I also agree with. The magic button is great. I do like the primitive nature of my SR500, but I wouldn't cry if it had an electric start. The KLX does and well worth it.

[Mountain Cruiser]

Motorcycling means different things to different people.....

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by perterra

I can appreciate the raw side, but spend 12 hours on the road the raw side gets old. IMO, yours may vary.

I've pulled a 16hr ride on a stock DR650 seat...NUFF SAID!

[DAKEZ]

^^^ That explains a lot.

[IRideASlowBike]

Originally Posted by daveinva

Uh-huh. Right. Sure, pal.

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

You just don't know what you are doing. My last ride in temps 105 to 112 degrees I hardly even broke a sweat and I was very comfortable.

You lack the gear or the knowledge of how to use it.

Originally Posted by perterra

Dakez, I dont know if anyone has ever told you this, but your full of shit.

I have ridden at 112º in a wet vest and mesh gear, I made it just fine as I'm sure you did, but the hardly broke a sweat comment is just dumb.

Hey, it's widely known that Dakez shits gold and has superhuman senses. Sweat? At only 110F? Pshaw, that's for mere humans.


Sorry Dakez, you just don't ride in 110F temps and "not break a sweat". Doesn't matter what gear you wear. At least here on the East Coast you sure don't. The only situation where you'd be "dry" was is if you weren't wearing any gear at all, and the sweat was simply evaporating off you faster than you could replenish it. But then you wouldn't last long before heatstroke and dehydration set in.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

I've pulled a 16hr ride on a stock DR650 seat...NUFF SAID!

Yeah yeah, two up and you enjoyed it. I dont, and see no reason to do so.

[gmiguy]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

I've pulled a 16hr ride on a stock DR650 seat...NUFF SAID!

Yeah, me too. It sucked, and wasn't fun.

So I decided to never do it again, and revised my vehicle selection and route planning to suit. That seems like a reasonable response to things that suck - figure out a way to not repeat them. This may make me a pansy. I don't care.