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Old 05-01-2012, 09:36 AM   #61
fonztheyeti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
OK "high dangler" and any one else: I might ask what the hell is your point? I don't care if my old bike has 50-75 hp. You obviously didn't read my post. "What your expectations are?" My bike does what I want...and quite well! If you have different needs/expectations, more power to you. Jeez! Where the hell are you people coming from?
i thought their point was "what was your point?". really. what was your point about the 20 minutes wfo and parked bit? also, if you really don't care about it why be so defensive?
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:45 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by fonztheyeti View Post
i thought their point was "what was your point?". really. what was your point about the 20 minutes wfo and parked bit? also, if you really don't care about it why be so defensive?

It's called rambling. One day you will get old and do it too. Trust me, all us old guys do it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:50 AM   #63
James Adams
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The book says around 80hp at the crank, but whatever it makes, the 600+ lb GL1000 makes enough to move me around as fast as I care to go, even up high elevation.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:18 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by JBSmith View Post
What he said. I worked for a few years at three moto-mags in SoCal back in the 1980s, when the horsepower war was white-hot. Every year brought bikes with more power, more speed, more everything. It was telling that the only place we could test any of these bikes to the fullest was on a drag strip or at Willow Springs. None of those big numbers mattered a bit when I was stuck in traffic on the 405.

At the last mag I worked for we had an editorial meeting to determine our bike of the year. One guy held out for the big Ninja, whose top speed had climbed from something like 181 all the way up to 183. I wondered out loud how that was in any way relevant to how the bike worked on the street. No one could tell me. It was just the mindset everyone was stuck in back then.

These days I ride an 1800 Gold Wing. It's said to have 100 hp and 100 ft-lb of torque. It needs most of that to haul its own obscene bulk (and mine) around. My last bike was a 650 V-Strom. I don't know what sort of power it produced, but I seldom found it wanting, and on those occasions when I did, I just shifted down a gear.

For my purposes if a bike can merge onto the interstate without getting squashed, and run along at 75 without breathing hard, that's pretty much all the power I need. Any more and my license starts to glow.
Interesting views. I agree with them, mostly. I thnk there is FAR too much focus on the power numbers produced by a bike. I think it's mere geekery. There is value in adequate power, or even far more than adequate power, but to obsess over which bike has slightly more power than another is goofy, I think. For example, I'd be more than happy with any sporty bike with tons of acceleration. I really don't care which is fastest or has most power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I believe it was the disabling of rear wheel lift detection in RACE mode. He hit the brakes hard and went over the bars. I don't believe any wheel lockup was involved. He is a very tall guy and I wonder if that was also a factor.

If the rear lift detection was enabled, I expect it would have dialed back the front braking force. That could have caused problems of a different nature.

Back to the nature of this thread - it is astonishing to me that one can walk into any BMW dealership, plunk down the equivalent price of a Ford Fiesta, and ride out on a machine as insanely powerful as a S1000RR.
Not to split hares (spelling faux pas intended) but maybe he had it in Slick mode (one up from Race and the least intrusive of the nanny-mechanisms). But even then traction control is on and should have detected excessive rear wheel lift. Unless he had the DTC and ABS disabled? Btw I'm 6'4" and although my private bits have been rammed into the tank on a number of occassions I've never felt any tendency to excessively lift the rear.

Oh well, again, glad he was okay.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:54 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
After owning a few Harley's I decided that their size, weight, and handling deficiencys weren't for me, but have to laugh when folks pan them for "low power".
I have owned many bikes with "more power", but for real world user friendly power, few bikes can match them.
Yep and for some $ you can almost double the stock hp/tq without significantly affecting the reliability and aside from a heavier clutch spring the factory tranny and drive belt can handle the added power.

Rear wheel numbers on a carbed '02 FXST with a 95" engine, cams and some head work.



This was the original "Black Betty" and was hell of a lot of fun to ride but the added performance was certainly not needed.

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Old 05-01-2012, 02:59 PM   #66
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I've always been in the school that thinks it is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow. However, my current ride, a Kawasaki EX-500, that is supposedly in the mid 50s in horsepower, weighing maybe 440 lbs. wet, and me weighing 175 lb. mostly dry, has enough oomph to get me killed or scare me. I ride by myself and am not into street racing, so it is usually just me and some winding back road, where I find the power to weight ratio is fine. If I were to do a two-up across the country, more HP would be nice. However, for my normal day to day riding I'm thinking my next bike will actually be smaller and lighter, like a 250. You see a lot of folks on here remarking about how they have more fun on their smaller bikes than their bigger bikes. On the roads I mostly ride a 250 would be a lot of fun.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:15 PM   #67
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My Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 twin is factory rated at 92hp, and 410lbs. For me, it's perfect. It really can move quickly when I put the steam to it, but gives me a second to consider my actions. The power is smooth, and relatively consistant from 4500 to 9500 rpms. I added 2 teeth to the rear sprocket for more climbing gear and less top speed, but it still doesn't power wheelie. The front gets pretty light, though, under full throttle.

When riding with my buddy who has a 2004 Yamaha R1, he makes me feel like I'm riding 250 thumper in the straight-aways. That would be way more than I need (and probably way more than he needs).
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I'm no S1000RR expert (more of a "slow and steady" guy), but I got curious and did some Googling. These words appear in the owner's manual under the description for both "Race" and "Slick" modes: " ..the function that detects the tendency of the rear wheel to lift clear of the ground is deactivated. Under these circumstances the rear wheel can lift off the ground."
It also appears that you must install a "coding plug" to even enable the "Slick" mode. I'm fairly certain he was in "Race" mode as he was just riding around town, not on a track.

I'd need a "TW200" mode to keep me from wrecking one of these things!

I sit corrected. I know the ABS and traction control stays enabled in Race, didn't know the rear wheel lift does not. Interesting. I've never had the rear lift, much. But I never had a crap-inducing braking experience either. I do practice "hard as I can" stopping on a regular basis though.

I put my Slick plug in as soon as I got the bike home, so that I won't lose the damn thing. I don't use Slick mode though.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Yep and for some $ you can almost double the stock hp/tq without significantly affecting the reliability and aside from a heavier clutch spring the factory tranny and drive belt can handle the added power.
I've heard this lots and don't doubt it, but it makes me wonder. Why the hell doesn't Harley do this themselves?!?!?
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:44 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by VTSteve View Post
I've heard this lots and don't doubt it, but it makes me wonder. Why the hell doesn't Harley do this themselves?!?!?
1. Emissions: none of the aftermarket stuff would come close to passing. You can smell the difference.

2. They make lots of money selling the stuff and even more installing it.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:21 PM   #71
blk-betty
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Originally Posted by wmax351 View Post
1. Emissions: none of the aftermarket stuff would come close to passing. You can smell the difference.

2. They make lots of money selling the stuff and even more installing it.
Yep...as far as go fast parts, there are many better options than HD/Screamin Eagle in the aftermarket world.

Stock HDs do just fine for normal riding within or slightly exceeding the existing speed limits.

I think what attracts a lot of buyers to HD is the fact that you can take a big heavy bike with limited handling capabilities relative to non-cruisers and build it up into a 'hot rod' similar to the 60-70s era muscle cars and todays HDs are all EFI with throttle by wire, ABS, Brembro brakes, cruise control, etc on the big tourers yet still "look" anitquated. Sure those muscle cars will never be as fast as a modern car but it's fun to tinker with and drive those type cars.

In some respects HD serves the same role in the motorcycle world.

What I find really interesting in this thread is that for the most part guys are saying 30-50 hp is fine for them yet HDs get bashed for being down on power and the modern Twin-Cams put out 60-70 hp and 70-80 tq. They do weigh more but torque is king for street riding and if we were to compare Torque to Weight, those big heavy HDs would have an advantge to similar HP bikes that weigh in 100-200 lbs less.

I'm not claiming HDs to be better than any other bike and they do have handling limitations but they can be alot of fun to ride if one insn't interested in street "racing".
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:43 PM   #72
JBSmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
I'm not claiming HDs to be better than any other bike and they do have handling limitations but they can be alot of fun to ride if one insn't interested in street "racing".
True. I've had some wonderful rides on Harleys. The problem is a lot of guys who ride Harleys never ride anything else, so they have no idea what real performance is. (Hint: think power-to-weight ratio.) Also, they're so committed to H-D that they'd never consider straying to another brand. So they spend thousands of dollars making a very heavy motorcycle more powerful when their first mistake was walking into the wrong showroom when they went looking for a bike in the first place.

I wrote for many years for a couple of Harley mags, and we never ever compared the performance of hopped-up V-twins to anything but other hopped-up V-twins--the readers would have come after us with pitchforks and torches. That insular mindset blinds H-D riders to the kind of performance they could buy elsewhere for a fraction of the cost of a new Harley.

But bolting a lot of go-fast stuff on a bike isn't just a Harley-guy thing. All riders do it, and not always with any noticeable improvement to the bike. Kinda like the literbike rider who says his bike is better than yours because his puts out 3 more hp and goes 2 mph faster on top.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JBSmith View Post
True. I've had some wonderful rides on Harleys. The problem is a lot of guys who ride Harleys never ride anything else, so they have no idea what real performance is. (Hint: think power-to-weight ratio.) Also, they're so committed to H-D that they'd never consider straying to another brand. So they spend thousands of dollars making a very heavy motorcycle more powerful when their first mistake was walking into the wrong showroom when they went looking for a bike in the first place.

I wrote for many years for a couple of Harley mags, and we never ever compared the performance of hopped-up V-twins to anything but other hopped-up V-twins--the readers would have come after us with pitchforks and torches. That insular mindset blinds H-D riders to the kind of performance they could buy elsewhere for a fraction of the cost of a new Harley.

But bolting a lot of go-fast stuff on a bike isn't just a Harley-guy thing. All riders do it, and not always with any noticeable improvement to the bike. Kinda like the literbike rider who says his bike is better than yours because his puts out 3 more hp and goes 2 mph faster on top.

Much truth here, my bro inlaw has an ultra with all the hot rod screaming eagle chit, big bore, remapped efi, the works. Fastest ultra I have ever ridden but it went from around 50 mpg to maybe mid 20's. His son rides a soft tail something or other. I talked his son in to taking my GL 1800 for a spin. He came back after about 10 minutes, he climbed off and all he said was mutha fucker that thing moves when you get the revs up. He had never ridden anything but something from the motor company so the flat six was a bit of a shock. Wife and I took a little trip with the bro inlaw/sis inlaw and nephew/niece and at one point the bro inlaw on the ultra wicked it up pretty good. Next stop he asked if we were working to keep up with him, the nephew just said, they were working to keep from running over your ass. I dont consider a GL 1800 slow by any means, but theres a load of bikes that will blister it's ass. His perception comes from no experience with other bikes.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:50 PM   #74
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My FZ6 is rated at 97hp at 12k RPM and weighs 423lbs.
Previous Ninja 650R, was rated at 65hp at 9k RPM and 393lbs.

They both make 45 lb/ft of torque, but the 650R does it at 7k RPM and the FZ6 at 10k RPM.

And there's the rub: The 650R was quicker, but the FZ6 is faster. tight backroads and urban assaults were a giggle on the 650R, you could get into the power alot more easily. It also felt alot better at part throttle in the middle of the rev range. Wide open at high speeds the FZ6 is in another league.

Horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. That said, the Triumph triples are comparable to my fazer in hp but have a healthy dollop of torque in the middle... that is where I will head next.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:53 PM   #75
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There are also those that ignorantly think all HD's are turds but they have never ridden one.
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