Simplicity or safistication?

lifer · 04-29-2012, 07:57 PM

I am thinking about getting a silverwing but I am being haunted by thoughts of a burgman 650 executive. I like the simplicity of the silverwing and I like the burg but I think there is a lot more that can go wrong with the drive train on the burg . I do like many of its features though. I want a scoot that is as cumfortable as possible for my wife on the back. Give me your thoughts.

fullmetalscooter · 04-29-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifer

I am thinking about getting a silverwing but I am being haunted by thoughts of a burgman 650 executive. I like the simplicity of the silverwing and I like the burg but I think there is a lot more that can go wrong with the drive train on the burg . I do like many of its features though. I want a scoot that is as cumfortable as possible for my wife on the back. Give me your thoughts.

Go with your heart guy. I feel in the end no one can make the choose for you . I really dought that ether one of these scooters is going to give any problems if taken care of

John Bentall · 04-30-2012, 01:24 AM

Assuming your wife does not share an identical shape with that of another rider on this board, have you considered getting your wife involved in the comfort aspects of your proposed choice?

JerseyBiker · 04-30-2012, 04:32 AM

Having owned both, my opinion is ...

For 2 up touring, the Burgman is a more comfortable scooter for both rider and passenger.

For around town solo riding the Swing is lighter and easier to maneuver .

Both will handle around town riding or 2 up touring well. It just depends on what you will do more of as to which might be better suited for your needs.

Both are good solid scoots and I would not choose based on what might go wrong on either.

If possible, test ride each alone and with your wife and then decide. Just the test riding will be fun!

Good luck and be sure to let us know which you go with.

Brooktown Geezer · 04-30-2012, 06:46 AM

I bought a new 650 Burgman, and a 5 year extended warranty from Suzuki. I had a small concern in the back of my mind regarding repair costs, and the extended warranty helped put that to rest.

Is the SWing motor sprung, or in the chassis?

Best,

Len

gumshoe4 · 04-30-2012, 07:25 AM

The SWing motor is chassis-mounted.

I have a SWing and it's been great, but I personally prefer the seating position and comfort of the Burgman 650.

That said, after doing some research over on the Burgman website, I'm a bit iffy on the complexity of the bike's transmission. Apparently, the tranny occasionally goes bad after 20-30K and it's a very expensive, time-consuming job which requires a fairly thorough disassembly of the machine to replace it, assuming Suzuki is willing to cover the costs. Apparently, according Brooktown Geezer, Suzuki is now providing a 5-year warranty on the machine to offset some concerns and that's a good thing.

The SWing is definitely more simple and not nearly as sophisticated. That's not a bad thing, in my humble opinion...

My advice is to carefully do your research before committing your money. I wish I could get the Burgman 650 with a standard CVT transmission, but such a thing does not exist.

Good luck with your decision...

knucklehead90 · 04-30-2012, 08:42 AM

I had the opportunity to test ride both of these bikes before deciding which one to buy. The SW was a 2005 with just over 5000 miles on the clock - it ran beautifully - handled good and was in near perfect shape - but it has just a bit less power than the Burgman. It also had less leg room - just a tad more leg room than the Majesty. With a bad right knee just a 15 minute ride was enough to let me know it'd be just as painful as the Majesty in very little time. The Burgman has 'almost' enough room that I can straighten out my leg taking pressure off the knee. I also like the bells and whistles the Burgman has. More to go wrong as has been mentioned - but it seems that Suzuki built a pretty stout scooter with the 650 - as has Honda.

I settled on the Burgman even though I could have gotten the SW for $1500 less - and I'm a cheap SOB. Either one is a very impressive large displacement scooter. The Burgman great even for short trips to the store - I don't know why so many think another smaller scooter needs to be on hand for short runs to the store etc. Works just fine for me. It'll hold more under the seat than I thought possible. Once I get a travel trunk for it I won't even need to use the SUV for that weekly run to the store for grub for me and the dog. I may even spring for a hitch so I can un retire my small MC trailer - Costco here I come!

creighta · 05-01-2012, 06:03 PM

Burg is nice, Silverwing is great 2-up especially if you add a top box with back rest. THe big decider may be cost, the swing is a few K cheaper.

vortexau · 05-02-2012, 02:31 AM

Undoing the Worrying Habit

Quote:

Strange as it may seem, you want what you worry about. Or at least that's what you inadvertently tell your brain when you worry. On one level, your brain can't process "negatives". If you tell it: "don't think about crashing the car", it can't help being "attracted" to the thought/image of crashing.
Consciously, worrying is about preventing/resisting/avoiding X. Subconsciously, it's a reinforcement of wanting X (at least to the extent of wanting the experience of X in your mind). Consciously, you're pressing on the brake; subconsciously you're pressing on the accelerator.

A good mantra- "You want the Burgman. It will be good for you. Stop worrying - these are not the droids that you're looking for!"
"Oh -wait!"

FoldArt · 05-02-2012, 03:09 PM

I also opted for a Silverwing a few years ago (over the Burgman 650).

The issues with the Silverwing are fairly easily remedied.
-Remove the butt stop, raise it up, and you have more legroom and a comfy backrest.
-Unlike the tranny on the B650, the Silverwing tranny can be modified with lighter roller weights or a J Costa variator. Net result = faster than a B650.

The issues with the B650 were not as easily remedied. It feels too heavy, and there is no way to remove 50 lbs from the scoot. It has too much engine braking, which makes for on/off action at slower, in-town speeds. It has too many buttons on the left grip. And you just can't fix ugly!

Actually, I could have learned to live with and enjoy either machine. I just happened to find a low mileage Silverwing for $1000-1500 less than any comparable B650 when I was shopping a few years ago. Go for either bike, depending upon which one strikes your fancy. But, if you get a B650 new, go for the extended warranty just in case.

ErikDK · 05-03-2012, 11:57 AM

With the electronically controlled CVT on the Burgman, we can have our cake an eat it.
We can both have low cruising rpm's and snappy acceleration when we twist the throttle wide open, because the controller also senses throttle position.
I've changed the CVT-characteristic of my Burgman 650 with a Speedo-Healer. I wanted less revs when cruising, which I achieved by adjusting the Speedo-Healer to 9.9% positive correction. I have two Speedo-Healers, one altering the speed signal to the speedometer (all Burgmans show 10% to high speed), the other altering the speed signal to the CVT-controller.

When I ride with a pillion, I switch to the second preset correction, +5% or 0% depending on weight.

For quick passes, I press the Power button while I'm behind the car, and switch back when I'm beside the car.

The 10% positive correction reduces the nerving engine braking significantly. If I want to brake, I'll use the brakes.

There's no way I'd be satisfied with the compromises of a mechanical CVT, which I feel out of place on anything above 250CC

CaseyJones · 05-04-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErikDK

With the electronically controlled CVT on the Burgman, we can have our cake an eat it.
We can both have low cruising rpm's and snappy acceleration when we twist the throttle wide open, because the controller also senses throttle position.
I've changed the CVT-characteristic of my Burgman 650 with a Speedo-Healer. I wanted less revs when cruising, which I achieved by adjusting the Speedo-Healer to 9.9% positive correction. I have two Speedo-Healers, one altering the speed signal to the speedometer (all Burgmans show 10% to high speed), the other altering the speed signal to the CVT-controller.

When I ride with a pillion, I switch to the second preset correction, +5% or 0% depending on weight.

For quick passes, I press the Power button while I'm behind the car, and switch back when I'm beside the car.

The 10% positive correction reduces the nerving engine braking significantly. If I want to brake, I'll use the brakes.

There's no way I'd be satisfied with the compromises of a mechanical CVT, which I feel out of place on anything above 250CC

What is a "Speedo-Healer"?

I just got a 2007 Burg 650Exec. My impressions are: Competent in all regards; outstanding in none. And especially int in fuel economy, which is in the low forties.

Since I had the low sixties with my Burg 400 some years back...I'm disappointed. I sorta expected it - but I'm disappointed. So...any help in hiking the mileage and dropping RPMs would be appreciated.

...

I got the 650 as consolation prize for getting old enough to have trouble throwing a leg over my former BMW. In that I'm satisfied...but I had my Farewell Run with the BMW on Monday, and I was reminded of what a great cycle can be.

The Burgie 650 holds its own with no apologies. But it's no R1200GS.

ErikDK · 05-05-2012, 03:43 AM

Google "What's a "speedo-healer?""
https://www.google.com/search?q=What...edo-Healer%22%

http://www.pashnit.com/product/speedohealer.html

The SpeedoHealer is an electronic device which will enable your bike's speedo and odometer to show realistic information. In addition, the Speedo Healer can convert miles to kilometers and vice versa in real time. In regard to the technical specifications and included functions, the SpeedoHealer is the best calibrator currently available.
Top Speed Memory recalls your recent real top speed to your factory speedometer display at the press of a button and will still work after the ignition is cycled off and back on later. This release also includes: - smaller, lighter, neater design - improved accuracy and noise tolerance for extreme applications

The Details:
Eliminating "factory inaccuracy", which may be as much as 10%
- Account for changes in tire size/profiles
- Make gear ratio changes, such as sprocket conversions on motorcycles
- By-pass (alter around) the built-in factory speed limiter on specific Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha bikes, such as the CBR1000RR, R1, ZX12R and ZX14.
Note: you need the GIpro w/ATRE to remove the speed limiter on Suzukis
- Mile or kilometer conversion on import vehicles
- Adjust for new speedo face-plate with different scale
- Requirement for absolute accurate odometer or speedometer
- Requirement to characterize the display unit of the vehicle (stability, error % and linearity)
What do you gain with SpeedoHealer?
- Accurate speedometer and/or odometer no matter what you change on your vehicle
- Your odometer won't show more miles/kms than you ride (RESALE VALUE!)
- Top Speed Memory (Ever wondered HOW FAST you were going?)
- Safety: your speedometer will always clearly indicate your actual speed, without lag
- Optimal performance (certain vehicles require accurate speed signal to deliver the most performance)
How much will the SpeedoHealer adjust?
- Plus or minus 90%. So you could go from 100mph down to 10mph, or from 50mph to nearly double that.

thunderkat59 · 05-05-2012, 04:21 AM

A huge part of my bike choices are what percentage of stuff can I fix on the
side of the road in Buzzard Gulch, Montana. The simpler bike will always win
out over the complicated one. That is also why I picked a 400 Burgman over a
650. The FI is a little scary, though

ErikDK · 05-05-2012, 09:07 AM

Then don't go to Buzzards Canyon.

OTOH, with the 400's rubber band transmission, which is a regular wear item, you will now how to fix it if you do your own maintenance. Just remember to bring a powered impact wrench with you on your trips.

With carbs, you have 4 to 6 nozzles in each carb, and float valves to go bad.

With injection you have one nozzle per cylinder.

What can leave you stranded on a trip is the regulator/rectifier, which the 400 and 650 share.

04-29-2012, 07:57 PM	#1
lifer ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Feb 2007 Oddometer: 200	Simplicity or safistication? I am thinking about getting a silverwing but I am being haunted by thoughts of a burgman 650 executive. I like the simplicity of the silverwing and I like the burg but I think there is a lot more that can go wrong with the drive train on the burg . I do like many of its features though. I want a scoot that is as cumfortable as possible for my wife on the back. Give me your thoughts.

04-30-2012, 08:42 AM	#7
knucklehead90 Adventurer Joined: Mar 2012 Oddometer: 94	I had the opportunity to test ride both of these bikes before deciding which one to buy. The SW was a 2005 with just over 5000 miles on the clock - it ran beautifully - handled good and was in near perfect shape - but it has just a bit less power than the Burgman. It also had less leg room - just a tad more leg room than the Majesty. With a bad right knee just a 15 minute ride was enough to let me know it'd be just as painful as the Majesty in very little time. The Burgman has 'almost' enough room that I can straighten out my leg taking pressure off the knee. I also like the bells and whistles the Burgman has. More to go wrong as has been mentioned - but it seems that Suzuki built a pretty stout scooter with the 650 - as has Honda. I settled on the Burgman even though I could have gotten the SW for $1500 less - and I'm a cheap SOB. Either one is a very impressive large displacement scooter. The Burgman great even for short trips to the store - I don't know why so many think another smaller scooter needs to be on hand for short runs to the store etc. Works just fine for me. It'll hold more under the seat than I thought possible. Once I get a travel trunk for it I won't even need to use the SUV for that weekly run to the store for grub for me and the dog. I may even spring for a hitch so I can un retire my small MC trailer - Costco here I come! __________________ 2008 650 Burgman Executive 2007 Yamaha Majesty 1971 Karmann Ghia 2001 Harley FLHTCUI 'Sold'

05-05-2012, 04:21 AM	#14
thunderkat59 Cooter on a scooter Joined: Dec 2011 Location: ♘ ④⓪②⓪⑤ ♘ Oddometer: 1,184	A huge part of my bike choices are what percentage of stuff can I fix on the side of the road in Buzzard Gulch, Montana. The simpler bike will always win out over the complicated one. That is also why I picked a 400 Burgman over a 650. The FI is a little scary, though __________________ Current ☞ Eton 50 & 2008 Burgman 400 For Sale or trade for ☞ Classic euro scooter ? ♬ Past ☞ CL175, Bridgestone100, CR250, DR650, GS500, YZF600, RR900, ZX900, XL883, FXST, Stella150 ☭☮☯♋

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: .
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-30-2012, 01:24 AM	#3
John Bentall Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2011 Location: London UK Oddometer: 144	Assuming your wife does not share an identical shape with that of another rider on this board, have you considered getting your wife involved in the comfort aspects of your proposed choice?

04-30-2012, 04:32 AM	#4
JerseyBiker Scootarazzi Joined: Jan 2007 Location: North Carolina Oddometer: 1,233	Having owned both, my opinion is ... For 2 up touring, the Burgman is a more comfortable scooter for both rider and passenger. For around town solo riding the Swing is lighter and easier to maneuver . Both will handle around town riding or 2 up touring well. It just depends on what you will do more of as to which might be better suited for your needs. Both are good solid scoots and I would not choose based on what might go wrong on either. If possible, test ride each alone and with your wife and then decide. Just the test riding will be fun! Good luck and be sure to let us know which you go with.

04-30-2012, 06:46 AM	#5
Brooktown Geezer scooter guy Joined: Feb 2009 Location: Fallbrook, CA Oddometer: 466	I bought a new 650 Burgman, and a 5 year extended warranty from Suzuki. I had a small concern in the back of my mind regarding repair costs, and the extended warranty helped put that to rest. Is the SWing motor sprung, or in the chassis? Best, Len

04-30-2012, 07:25 AM	#6
gumshoe4 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Feb 2007 Oddometer: 457	The SWing motor is chassis-mounted. I have a SWing and it's been great, but I personally prefer the seating position and comfort of the Burgman 650. That said, after doing some research over on the Burgman website, I'm a bit iffy on the complexity of the bike's transmission. Apparently, the tranny occasionally goes bad after 20-30K and it's a very expensive, time-consuming job which requires a fairly thorough disassembly of the machine to replace it, assuming Suzuki is willing to cover the costs. Apparently, according Brooktown Geezer, Suzuki is now providing a 5-year warranty on the machine to offset some concerns and that's a good thing. The SWing is definitely more simple and not nearly as sophisticated. That's not a bad thing, in my humble opinion... My advice is to carefully do your research before committing your money. I wish I could get the Burgman 650 with a standard CVT transmission, but such a thing does not exist. Good luck with your decision...

05-01-2012, 06:03 PM	#8
creighta Adventurer Joined: Oct 2011 Location: sOHi Oddometer: 95	Burg is nice, Silverwing is great 2-up especially if you add a top box with back rest. THe big decider may be cost, the swing is a few K cheaper.

05-02-2012, 03:09 PM	#10
FoldArt Adventurer Joined: Mar 2010 Location: Charlotte NC Oddometer: 74	I also opted for a Silverwing a few years ago (over the Burgman 650). The issues with the Silverwing are fairly easily remedied. -Remove the butt stop, raise it up, and you have more legroom and a comfy backrest. -Unlike the tranny on the B650, the Silverwing tranny can be modified with lighter roller weights or a J Costa variator. Net result = faster than a B650. The issues with the B650 were not as easily remedied. It feels too heavy, and there is no way to remove 50 lbs from the scoot. It has too much engine braking, which makes for on/off action at slower, in-town speeds. It has too many buttons on the left grip. And you just can't fix ugly! Actually, I could have learned to live with and enjoy either machine. I just happened to find a low mileage Silverwing for $1000-1500 less than any comparable B650 when I was shopping a few years ago. Go for either bike, depending upon which one strikes your fancy. But, if you get a B650 new, go for the extended warranty just in case.

05-03-2012, 11:57 AM	#11
ErikDK Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Oddometer: 41	With the electronically controlled CVT on the Burgman, we can have our cake an eat it. We can both have low cruising rpm's and snappy acceleration when we twist the throttle wide open, because the controller also senses throttle position. I've changed the CVT-characteristic of my Burgman 650 with a Speedo-Healer. I wanted less revs when cruising, which I achieved by adjusting the Speedo-Healer to 9.9% positive correction. I have two Speedo-Healers, one altering the speed signal to the speedometer (all Burgmans show 10% to high speed), the other altering the speed signal to the CVT-controller. When I ride with a pillion, I switch to the second preset correction, +5% or 0% depending on weight. For quick passes, I press the Power button while I'm behind the car, and switch back when I'm beside the car. The 10% positive correction reduces the nerving engine braking significantly. If I want to brake, I'll use the brakes. There's no way I'd be satisfied with the compromises of a mechanical CVT, which I feel out of place on anything above 250CC

05-05-2012, 09:07 AM	#15
ErikDK Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Oddometer: 41	Then don't go to Buzzards Canyon. OTOH, with the 400's rubber band transmission, which is a regular wear item, you will now how to fix it if you do your own maintenance. Just remember to bring a powered impact wrench with you on your trips. With carbs, you have 4 to 6 nozzles in each carb, and float valves to go bad. With injection you have one nozzle per cylinder. What can leave you stranded on a trip is the regulator/rectifier, which the 400 and 650 share.