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Old 06-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #46
markk53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatoM View Post
Nice thread!!

When cornering:
- stand, lean the bike while your body stays upright, load the outer footpeg. Others prefer to remain seated, holding the bike with their knees.
- shift the weight front or back when entering or exiting


and, of course, seat time and enjoy!
Problem with standing when cornering in serious loose stuff is that you can not quickly and easily dab with a foot should the front give a bit (read as "recoverable washout") or the rear slides out much. On a loose gravel surface it really is easier to deal with when sitting down, unless the surface is extremely rutted as well. Then slow and standing is the way.

I do speak with some experience here, having ridden trials (99% standing) on all sorts of surfaces, plus short tracking on pea gravel (best stuff) as well as other dirt surfaces, off roading/harescrambling on all sorts of surfaces from dry loose to muddy slippery, and now a lot of miles dual sporting with an eye out for some good flat track style sliding when possible. On the MX bike there was one downhill that ended in an area with loose gravel. It was a blast to come down the hill tapped in 4th and kind of pitch it sideways drifting both wheels foot out around the water tank in the middle of the flat area.

Fact is it just isn't easy to dab with a foot when standing up and you darn well better be going seriously slow if you should need to try doing so, because you're going to have enough weight on the leg and it won't stay planted long as the bike is moving forward. In trials often there is a planned dab trying to get the maximum movement and benefit from putting one's foot down and working around that spot with the bike to end up where one wants to be. At more normal speeds your leg will kick out so quick the bike will be on its side before you know what's happened. At normal speeds sitting down I've even saved a rear end slide out with the road bike when hitting a spot of gravel covered (well disguised) pavement by putting a foot out.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #47
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Sure, good point! You're right! I didn't think about that while I was writing before... And that's sth I usually do!!!
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:39 PM   #48
Harvey Krumpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Problem with standing when cornering in serious loose stuff is that you can not quickly and easily dab with a foot should the front give a bit (read as "recoverable washout") or the rear slides out much. On a loose gravel surface it really is easier to deal with when sitting down, unless the surface is extremely rutted as well. Then slow and standing is the way.

I do speak with some experience here, having ridden trials (99% standing) on all sorts of surfaces, plus short tracking on pea gravel (best stuff) as well as other dirt surfaces, off roading/harescrambling on all sorts of surfaces from dry loose to muddy slippery, and now a lot of miles dual sporting with an eye out for some good flat track style sliding when possible. On the MX bike there was one downhill that ended in an area with loose gravel. It was a blast to come down the hill tapped in 4th and kind of pitch it sideways drifting both wheels foot out around the water tank in the middle of the flat area.

Fact is it just isn't easy to dab with a foot when standing up and you darn well better be going seriously slow if you should need to try doing so, because you're going to have enough weight on the leg and it won't stay planted long as the bike is moving forward. In trials often there is a planned dab trying to get the maximum movement and benefit from putting one's foot down and working around that spot with the bike to end up where one wants to be. At more normal speeds your leg will kick out so quick the bike will be on its side before you know what's happened. At normal speeds sitting down I've even saved a rear end slide out with the road bike when hitting a spot of gravel covered (well disguised) pavement by putting a foot out.


Yup, better dabbing with your goolies on the tank than dangling in the breeze. You do high light the importance of using the right body position for your speed, road surface & intentions. Sitting or standing static will cause a problem eventually. Flexibility & anticipation are key on & off the throttle.

I ride knobbies & dual sport tires on a light bike & a heavy one. The knobbies are great for being a hooligan but I find my limits a lot quicker & in more spectacular style. The dual sports keep me honest. I have to really focus on my technique to make quick safe, progress & get a lot of pleasure from it. I never adjust pressures because their is always a decent tarmac stint on my rides.
On a recent ride I ended up on a gnarly graveless road, just slick, wet clay. At one point the back end of the TDM just followed the road camber rather than moving ahead. That was a standing up moment to get my weight wayyyyyy on the outside to find some grip. 8 out of 10 in the pucker factor.I rode the same road a few days later in slightly worse conditions on the small bike with knobbies & to be honest I did not have much of an increase in grip. Much less scary though, on a lighter bike. The last part of the trip on wet tarmac with the moto x cross rear was the worst part of all, it walked on every corner......

Harvey Krumpet screwed with this post 06-01-2012 at 04:48 PM
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:08 PM   #49
Ronin ADV
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Damper?

What's the consensus on steering damper settings. I have been playing around with various settings on my Scotts in the gravel and I havent found any great solution. I like it turned down tighter in sand but it doesnt seem to make as much of a difference in gravel.
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Old 06-01-2012, 05:36 PM   #50
Harvey Krumpet
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Originally Posted by WW Ronin View Post
What's the consensus on stearing damper settings. I have been playing around with various settings on my Scotts in the gravel and I havent found any great solution. I like it turned down tighter in sand but it doesnt seem to make as much of a difference in gravel.
Part of the road I mentioned above has been re-gravelled to a depth of about 6 inches. The front of both bikes squirrel all over the place, bars flapping like over caffeinated cheer leaders. A damper would probably help on the lighter bike, tubby held the line better.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:13 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMinihan View Post
I was really glad to find this thread. Would anyone be will to elaborate more on going around curves on gravel?

Thanks.
It took a long tme before the aha moment for me but as mentioned, weight the outside peg.

In addition, when turning left, get the right 'corner' or edge of the seat in yer crack. When turning right, the left corner corner of the seat. IOW, do NOT lean like you're on the street.

Keeps your weight where it needs to be and you in a position to dab that foot if necessary as markk53 mentioned.

I also like to be as far forward on the tank as possible keeping the front tire planted.

This is all for gravel roads, btw. Not deep sand.


BTW, good off season practice is ice riding. Many of the same techniques are used and the 'lessons' aren't typically as painful as on the dirt. YMMV.

For the advanced training, build yourself a really crappy front tire. You can't climb far enough up on the tank to keep the front planted.

Come spring time you will be amazed at how much better you ride the dirt.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown View Post
In addition, when turning left, get the right 'corner' or edge of the seat in yer crack. When turning right, the left corner corner of the seat. IOW, do NOT lean like you're on the street.

Keeps your weight where it needs to be and you in a position to dab that foot if necessary as markk53 mentioned.
This is a really big deal. I took several years off to go boating and when I came back I had forgotten it. I was riding straight up, no lean, in or out. Then the AHA moment.

Roll a food can on the floor, it will go in a straight line. Roll a paper cup on the floor and it will roll in a circle. Your tires work the same way, get the tire on the cone (anywhere off center) and it will turn itself. When I'm in a hurry, I exaggerate the 'push the bike down' (feeling the outside corner of the seat in my crack, fwiw: wide Corbin), if I don't need it all, it's easy to straighten back up a little. But if I needed more, too bad, blow the turn and try again at the next turn.

When I'm 'on' (exiting the turn), my inside arm is almost straight, my outside arm is pulling the grip toward my shoulder, keeping me forward on the seat and gassin' it. Wheeeeeeeeee

I've seen drawings of this (rolling cone) but it didn't register until I felt it.
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"BTW, I don't do style. It's a dirt bike, not some girlie dress-up thing." -
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilClown View Post
It took a long tme before the aha moment for me but as mentioned, weight the outside peg.

In addition, when turning left, get the right 'corner' or edge of the seat in yer crack. When turning right, the left corner corner of the seat. IOW, do NOT lean like you're on the street.

Keeps your weight where it needs to be and you in a position to dab that foot if necessary as markk53 mentioned.

I also like to be as far forward on the tank as possible keeping the front tire planted.

This is all for gravel roads, btw. Not deep sand.


BTW, good off season practice is ice riding. Many of the same techniques are used and the 'lessons' aren't typically as painful as on the dirt. YMMV.

For the advanced training, build yourself a really crappy front tire. You can't climb far enough up on the tank to keep the front planted.

Come spring time you will be amazed at how much better you ride the dirt.
You guys must ride really fast. I don't do any of that. Seriously. No weighting outside pegs (or inside pegs), nor moving towards any edge of any seat.



That's me riding in the Death Valley at normal speeds without the ass technique whatever that is, or weighing pegs (this video is from the road from Steel Pass towards Warm Springs towards the Saline Rd.).

Nothing done, except throttle control and very relaxed arms!

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Old 06-08-2012, 06:41 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
That's me riding in the Death Valley at normal speeds without the ass technique
On a gravel road that packed down, with a smooth trace to either side, I wouldn't be weighting or standing either.

I only stand on a gravel ROAD for specific obstacles, like a drainage swale across the road. I live on a dirt/gravel road. I also drive my car on it. I do not stand or weight pegs on my road or any like it.

OTOH the guy who said he never stands in dirt must not be riding the kind of dirt I do. It is very rocky around here and if you rode one of our rock garden sections sitting, it would be like taking dozens of gut punches in a hundred yards. And even on a smooth sandy trail, how do you ride whoop-de-doos sitting?

For routine gravel ROADS some of the techniques discussed here are overkill. I ride a dirt/gravel ROAD every day that I ride, it's how I leave the house. But it's a ROAD that I drive my car on, too. It is not OFF-road, it isn't a TRAIL. It is merely off-PAVEMENT.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
But it's a ROAD that I drive my car on, too. It is not OFF-road, it isn't a TRAIL. It is merely off-PAVEMENT.
Don't dis it man. That is like a big adventure for me, on a street bike (Versys) with street tires and having zero motocross or even anything resembling off road experience.

I am salivating reading this thread about tossing your bike around on gravel. I just don't dare to try it with no experience on my commuter bike clad in fragile plastic.
I need to get me a WR250R.
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #56
Uncle Pollo
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Originally Posted by RPMinihan View Post
I was really glad to find this thread. Would anyone be will to elaborate more on going around curves on gravel?

Thanks.
yes

seat back a bit more
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:22 PM   #57
viverrid
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Originally Posted by PolloAsesino View Post
yes

seat back a bit more
That's not right.
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That's not right.
Going straight?

That is how I get out of the Panzer Trap (driveway)
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:49 PM   #59
EvilClown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
You guys must ride really fast. I don't do any of that. Seriously. No weighting outside pegs (or inside pegs), nor moving towards any edge of any seat.



That's me riding in the Death Valley at normal speeds without the ass technique whatever that is, or weighing pegs (this video is from the road from Steel Pass towards Warm Springs towards the Saline Rd.).

Nothing done, except throttle control and very relaxed arms!

Lion
Looks like some great riding there in DV.

You touch on a good point, Lion. Speed.

Just a student of riding the motorcycle here, but speed, type/size/weight of bike and tire choice (and pressures) are but a few factors that weigh in to what technique or lack there of I can get away with.

Here's a bit of Canada Stagehand put together from this past weekend.



Of course, us mere mortals can only hope to ride like some of these guys.
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