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Old 05-03-2012, 06:07 AM   #1
Elburrito OP
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Anyone own shares of a aircraft?

I'm thinking of buying a 1/4 share of a C-182 and looking for good and bad input from fellow adv'ers that have done the same thing.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:46 AM   #2
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:54 AM   #3
FPGT72
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I have owned one (piper) outright myself, and before I bought I looked into it pretty close....after that I just bought one outright myself. At the time my PA-28 cost under 20K, indoor hanger was 300 per month....to me it was more worth it to own my own. The insurance costs were quite different in the share vs. the private. Plus it was stored indoors that helped as well.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:11 AM   #4
Elburrito OP
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The annual costs are roughly (individual in brackets) :

--Insurance: ($1,000,000 liability)
$2,100.00 ($525) per year

--Parking with electrical outlet: $750
($190) per year

--Annual inspection: $1,200.00
($400)

TT- 3700, SMOH - 670

Until December there was no damage history until one owner decided to land on the taxi way and ran into another ac. 40k later a new wing was installed so the insurance premium increased by 20% and that owner has been denied insurance from here on in.

There's approximately 6k in the kitty for ongoing misc.

Asking price is 21k for 25% ownership. AOPA values the ac at 65k with no damage history so I'm thinking 12k is more reasonable.

Seems reasonable for 182. - thoughts?
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:38 AM   #5
rustynut2
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From an A & P, run away.
If it flies, floats or fucks its cheaper to rent.
The numbers dont add up on the engine, 670 since o/h. So the last engine went 3000 hours since new, way over tbo.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:50 AM   #6
Elburrito OP
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TBO is 1500hrs. The engine has been done twice.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:56 AM   #7
rustynut2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elburrito View Post
TBO is 1500hrs. The engine has been done twice.
I stand corrected. Sounds like a low tbo time, how old is it?

After looking at the 470's I guess that is a normal o/h time. Thought they went at least 1800hrs
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:59 AM   #8
Elburrito OP
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1972 Cessna 182P :

• TT (total time): 3692.7
• Engine is a Continental O-470-S 6-cylinder engine, 230 HP. TBO is
1500 hours
• Constant speed 2-bladed McCauleyprop. TBO is 2000 hours
• Standard tanks, 65 US gallons (60 usable); burn rate is 11 GPH
• SMOH (time since major overhaul): 646.7
• SPOH (time since prop overhaul): 271.9
• Last annual: August 2011

Equipment :

• certified IFR
• Avionics
o NavCom1 King KX155/GS
o NavCom2 King KX170B
o ADF King KR85
o Transponder Garmin GTX 327
o DME Narco 190
o AudioPanel King KMA20
• Other
o McCauley Prop (2007)
o Tanis Heater
o EI Ultimate Engine Analyzer
o Century 1 Autopilot (wing leveller)
o Strobes
o New windshield (2007)
o Wing Covers
o Cowl Blanket
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:39 AM   #9
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What is the cost per hour to fly as a partner? If you say that is part of the ownership then your missing out on how they got 6k in the kiddy...
Do the other owner always take the time to top up after flying?

I flew for 110(in the tiger) for an hour two weeks ago topped off ten gallon at 6.50 for av.

And outside looking in 25% means you have to schedule flying time with four others ..
When i looked at being a fourth on a Tiger last year the numbers did not add up ...

For me it is cheaper to fly with my friend then it is to be part owner..
Beside sometimes I get the call "You wanna fly such and such to here??"
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
FPGT72
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Now I know why I am happy I sold....I did not know the prices had gone up that much.

I sold this (never a rental till I sold it) several years ago for ~20k. Insurance was not that bad, hanger rent was not that bad...I was just not flying it anymore. I admit I had not looked into it for years, but if it is now that expensive I am glad I sold when I did.

Anyway I was digging around and found a pic of my old plane...good ole 95265....but I do miss it and saw it as a rental now and it just tore my heart out

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Old 05-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #11
Elburrito OP
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nice 140. I have 100 or so hours on one.
btw I googled your old ac and here she be : http://www.learn2flymea.com/95265.html

it's 50/hr to fly the 182 plus gas so it ain't cheap you're right. I just don't have any options other than renting 172's for 120/hr. at least with the 182 I can pack up the family and do some half decent x country trips every year.

but yes, what weighs on my mind is HOW much will I actually use it.

if I can get the share for around 12k it would be a easier decision :)
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elburrito View Post

Until December there was no damage history until one owner decided to land on the taxi way and ran into another ac. 40k later a new wing was installed so the insurance premium increased by 20% and that owner has been denied insurance from here on in.
So if that owner is no longer covered by insurance, he is not still flying the plane, is he? Or has he bought his own insurance or can post a letter of credit? If I was in the group, I would want to make sure that there is some financial recourse should that owner get into another accident.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #13
SunwardIveClimbed
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I own and often wish that I just rented. Depending on how many hours you fly it will be cheaper to rent. Most people cannot fly enough hours to get past the breakpoint. Looking over your math, there are things missing that you will be paying for. I guess that it also depends on your personality. If you rent, your never locked in. When things break, being locked into a deal like that can make you really uncomfortable - just thinking about the possibility of them breaking often makes me uncomfortable.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #14
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There are no planes available to rent anywhere near where I live so I choose to own for now. Its nice to have a floatplane parked in front of the house and I find I'm flying more because of it. I don't know what that breakeven point is, but I know I would regret it later if I didn't do it now while able. Satisfying the flying itch is as difficult to justify as the motorcycle itch. Go for it even if you have to start small.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:10 PM   #15
06ltd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elburrito View Post

Until December there was no damage history until one owner decided to land on the taxi way and ran into another ac. 40k later a new wing was installed so the insurance premium increased by 20% and that owner has been denied insurance from here on in.
That right there is the single biggest issue with being in a partnership on an aircraft. You have to know the people you're getting into this kind of thing with really, really well.

Of the people I know who've owned aircraft in a partnership:

-Mooney M20E: Ran off the end of the runway. Skin damage, engine overhaul, 709 ride for the pilot.

-Piper Aztec: Ran off the end of the runway. Totaled, no injuries.

-Baron 58: Ran into a gpu. New engines (mx personnel were towing the aircraft so their shop did the motors).

When these things happen, even if you weren't the one operating the plane, some of the costs come back to you. Insurance premiums go up, the value of the aircraft goes down, and you lose use of the plane while it's in the shop.

Also, $1200 for an annual on a Skylane sounds really expensive. I've got a buddy with a fiki baron that doesn't pay that much. Do you know any local A&P's?
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