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View Results: Please vote your situation & mileage AT FAILURE or multiple failures
NO failure - current mileage 0 - 20K miles 169 47.74%
NO failure - current mileage 20K - 40K miles 84 23.73%
NO failure - current mileage 40K - 60K miles 19 5.37%
NO failure - current mileage 60K+ miles 0 0%
YES - one failure at: 0 - 20K miles 10 2.82%
YES - one failure at: 20K - 40K miles 42 11.86%
YES one failure at: 40K - 60K miles 18 5.08%
YES one failure at: 60K+ miles 4 1.13%
MULTIPLE FAILURES 8 2.26%
Voters: 354. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-27-2012, 06:12 AM   #31
vtbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckerdD View Post
I would be really interested in knowing how many of the "failures" are from people who have over taxed the system. The stock system puts out 400 something watts. Electric vest, PIAAS, GPS, radar detector, hand warmers and your near that point. Put on your turn signal and, honk the horn, and PSAPP. You have cooked it. Dave
The BMW system puts out full power (essentially some hair splitting possible) all the time and the regulator shunts the unneeded power to ground. This type of design is both cheaper and lighter than a field regulated alternator,..ie what you have in your car.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:03 AM   #32
JRWooden OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckerdD View Post
I would be really interested in knowing how many of the "failures" are from people who have over taxed the system. The stock system puts out 400 something watts. Electric vest, PIAAS, GPS, radar detector, hand warmers and your near that point. Put on your turn signal and, honk the horn, and PSAPP. You have cooked it. Dave
Dave:
The way the stock regulator designed, the stator is forced to work at maximum output all of the time,
regardless of the electrical load applied. It is called a "shunt" style regulator and any surplus current above demand is just sent to ground, .... the stator has a tough job irregardless of applied load....
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:51 PM   #33
JoelWisman
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I stuck a vote in there because a guy that bought one of my old F8s had his stator fail at 29,000 miles. He is not a member and doesn't like forums, so no chance of double counting him.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:08 AM   #34
JRWooden OP
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Thanks Joel!

I'm just getting back from a 2000 mile trip up and down the east coast!

Just as a general update, ElectroSport is committed to building an aftermarket stator for the twins.
They have prototype parts on order which they will test on arrival.
Since testing has not started yet and they don't know if any design iterations will be needed,
the schedule for general availability is not known. I did feed their engineering team the results of all the testing and observations done here on ADVRider, so I would hope this to be a good option when it becomes available.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #35
zaner32
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Stator failed at about 20K miles. My vote was posted.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:29 PM   #36
JRWooden OP
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I've swapped email with Electrosport again....

Their design includes a better grade of wire (for lower resistance and thus lower internal heating), as well as a different winding design and a few other enhancements. I'm hopefull that their design could resolve our problem. They will begin testing soon.

Just to re-iterate: I strongly recommend all owners to install one of the many available devices that monitor system voltage so as to have advance warning of charging system failure.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #37
Lleo F
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Hello ADVRiders,

I read this post last few days after the failure catch my bike - voltage regulator (R/R) (2007 F800ST - has the same part number of stator/Generator likes yours bikes).
My F800 is only 15K km (9.5K in US miles) and out of warranty .

Last few days I explore multi-forums and found that the same failure part 12317690427 (Generator) was found on the following vehicles, (R/R too):

K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , USA (0226) : Generator
K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , USA (0244) : Generator
K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , Europe (0216) : Generator
K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , Europe (0234) : Generator
K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , USA (0228) : Generator
K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , USA (0229) : Generator
K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , Europe (0218) : Generator
K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , Europe (0219) : Generator
K72 F 800 GS (0225) N/A, , Europe (0225) : Generator
K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , USA (0227) : Generator
K73 F 800 R (0215) N/A, , Europe (0215) : Generator
K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , Europe (0217) : Generator

At dozen of forums where subject is all F Models there is so many complains for Alternator/stator and Voltage Regulator.
This part is too expensive, and should be replace by BMW even if you're after warranty, or only some labour fee.

Best Regards
Lléo F

P.S. Please forgive me for my basic english, I'm good speaker but creepy writer.

P.S. II
Part 61312346550 (Voltage regulator) was found on the following vehicles:
K14 F 650 CS 02 (0174,0184) N/A, , USA (0184) : Voltage regulator
K14 F 650 CS 04 (0177,0187) N/A, , USA (0187) : Voltage regulator
K14 F 650 CS 02 (0174,0184) N/A, , Europe (0174) : Voltage regulator
K14 F 650 CS 04 (0177,0187) N/A, , Europe (0177) : Voltage regulator
K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , USA (0226) : Voltage regulator
K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , USA (0244) : Voltage regulator
K71 F 800 S (0216,0226) N/A, , Europe (0216) : Voltage regulator
K71 F 800 ST (0234,0244) N/A, , Europe (0234) : Voltage regulator
K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , USA (0228) : Voltage regulator
K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , USA (0229) : Voltage regulator
K72 F 650 GS (0218,0228) N/A, , Europe (0218) : Voltage regulator
K72 F 800 GS (0219,0229) N/A, , Europe (0219) : Voltage regulator
K72 F 800 GS (0225) N/A, , Europe (0225) : Voltage regulator
K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , USA (0227) : Voltage regulator
K73 F 800 R (0215) N/A, , Europe (0215) : Voltage regulator
K73 F 800 R (0217,0227) N/A, , Europe (0217) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS 00 (0172,0182) N/A, , USA (0182) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS 04 (0175,0185) N/A, , USA (0185) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS Dakar 00 (0173,0183) N/A, , USA (0183) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS Dakar 04 (0176,0186) N/A, , USA (0186) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS 00 (0172,0182) N/A, , Europe (0172) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS 04 (0175,0185) N/A, , Europe (0175) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS Dakar 00 (0173,0183) N/A, , Europe (0173) : Voltage regulator
R13 F 650 GS Dakar 04 (0176,0186) N/A, , Europe (0176) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , USA (0189) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 10 (0171) N/A, , Europe (0171) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0135) N/A, , Europe (0135) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , Europe (0188) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 09 (0178,0179) N/A, , USA (0179) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , USA (0189) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 09 (0178,0179) N/A, , Europe (0178) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 09 (0180) N/A, , Europe (0180) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 10 (0171) N/A, , Europe (0171) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0135) N/A, , Europe (0135) : Voltage regulator
R131 G 650 GS 11 (0188,0189) N/A, , Europe (0188) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sert?o (0136, 0146) N/A, , USA (0146) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0136, 0146) N/A, , Europe (0136) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0137) N/A, , Europe (0137) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sert?o (0136, 0146) N/A, , USA (0146) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0136, 0146) N/A, , Europe (0136) : Voltage regulator
R134 G 650 GS Sertao (0137) N/A, , Europe (0137) : Voltage regulator

Lleo F screwed with this post 07-17-2012 at 04:03 PM Reason: After full inspection by service voltage regulator is a failure
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:48 AM   #38
JRWooden OP
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Thanks!

Lléo - thanks for your post!
Your English is much better than my Polish would be I can assure you of that!

I guess the F800S & F800ST do have the same issue this is a shame!

To summarize the possible fixes ... I think we have:

  1. The oil cooling modification to the flywheel (Buell is doing this in their "works" )
    It has the possibility of compromising engine lubrication (will it ... I have no idea... but there's a chance).
    I think this will fix the stator issue ... even a modest amount of oil for cooling should drop the temp. of the stator enough to keep the insulation from failing.. someone would need to measure temperatures of the stator in use before and after the modification to confirm...
  2. I'll have to find the link, but someone from Buell was drilling small holes around the perimeter of their flywheel to promote air circulation thus cooling the stator ... this should help, but I have no idea if it will totally fix the problem ... again ... someone would need to measure temperatures of the stator in use before and after the modification to confirm...
  3. The series style R/R.
    We have several riders using this successfully.
    IMHO, it has the possibility of causing issues with the CANBus (will it ... I have no idea... but there's a chance).
  4. BMW's new open flywheel design, which may also include changes to the stator
    I'm pretty confident that this will work, and is a fully supported fix, but alas a very expensive if out of warranty.
  5. "Detuning" the stator - Joel and I kicked this around - if small resistors were added in series with each of the three stator leads (say 0.1 or 0.2 ohms) this would reduce the output of the stator and thus reduce the I^2*R heating of the stator coils potentially fixing the problem ... Albeit at the expense of reduced output by the alternator. Perhaps reducing the out put from 400W to something like 350W. This modification could be done so as to make it easily reversible for winter riding or heavy electrical loads... again testing required to confirm...
  6. As I've mentioned somewhere, I have reported the details of our stator issues to ElectroSport a company that mfg. stators, and they have a design in test that they believe will fix the problem. If their testing works out, this is probably the cheapest and most reliable fix - at less than $150 USD.
    I'll send my contact an e-mail today asking for an update on this............
Ok ... did I miss anything?
Jim
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #39
JRWooden OP
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Replacement stator by Electrosport will hit the street soon

Folks:

As some of you already know, I have been talking to Electrosport about the stator issues with our bikes and fed them the technical details of the issue some months back - I just got word from my contact there as to the results of the testing of their prototype replacement stator unit -- engineered to overcome the defects in the OEM unit. Here's what he says:

Testing went well and we're making a good sized (production) batch. We are hoping to have them available in a few weeks for regular sale. We changed the winding set up and a lowered internal resistance of the wire/winding which helps a lot in keeping the stator cooler.

Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
66 Maxwell, Irvine, CA 92618
PH: (949) 748-6338
www.electrosport.com
info (at) electrosport.com

I don't want to post his name here on open forum but he is the guy that answers queries to the e-mail address above... or you can PM me for his name. I'm just a bit nervous about posting it publicly. For those of us out of warranty, I think this could be a very good option ... prices are not available as yet, but should be less than $150 USD.

Jim

PS: Just for the record: I have no affiliation or financial relationship with Electrosport
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:42 PM   #40
EasyRiding
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Very disappointing... Mine was at exactly 54000km.. Had to tow twice before BMW agent diagnosed a stator fault.

- From Singapore
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:44 AM   #41
Dieselboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
Folks:

As some of you already know, I have been talking to Electrosport about the stator issues with our bikes and fed them the technical details of the issue some months back - I just got word from my contact there as to the results of the testing of their prototype replacement stator unit -- engineered to overcome the defects in the OEM unit. Here's what he says:

Testing went well and we're making a good sized (production) batch. We are hoping to have them available in a few weeks for regular sale. We changed the winding set up and a lowered internal resistance of the wire/winding which helps a lot in keeping the stator cooler.

Procom Engineering / ElectroSport
66 Maxwell, Irvine, CA 92618
PH: (949) 748-6338
www.electrosport.com
info (at) electrosport.com

I don't want to post his name here on open forum but he is the guy that answers queries to the e-mail address above... or you can PM me for his name. I'm just a bit nervous about posting it publicly. For those of us out of warranty, I think this could be a very good option ... prices are not available as yet, but should be less than $150 USD.

Jim

PS: Just for the record: I have no affiliation or financial relationship with Electrosport

Good news, but will the change in windings affect the overall output or will be still have the same amount of juice?


EDIT: Just checked their website....still nothing posted.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:55 AM   #42
Bobo1167
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I have an led gimmick like this installed

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWooden View Post
I have just posted a poll over on F800Riders forum for the F800S / F800ST riders to use:

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthre...ns-please-vote!

As best I can tell, those bikes share the same original stator & flywheel design, so we'll see if we learn anything from their experiences ... since that design point has been around since 2006 (I think?)

It was of no good use when the stator failed and battery started discharging.

I think, the led thing threshold is too low for any good info. by the time you get to the less than 12volt yellow level, your're screwed anyway..

What I think is needed is a proper voltmeter, so you can observe the "high revs charging voltage, with normal running load". Since the problem is no charging, that's what we need to be looking for. An ammeter would be the classic thing, a digital voltmeter can be installed easily.

What i did observe, while i still had enough juice to start and drive (for maybe 10 more minutes)was that the odometer resets to normal from trip A. I noticed this because i always drive with trip A displayed for gas mileage guesses. And then when you stop for gas, restart, and can't reset the trip A cause it's changed to normal, DON'T LEAVE THE GAS STATION !!!!!!! YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

Also, and this wasn't nearly as clear as to there being a problem, the various other displays on the instruments began to boot (when key turned on) oddly. Some of the idiot lites would act differently than normal, flash oddly, meter needles not sweeping.

My performance running on battery only, seemed much better than an hour. That's a guess, without some measure of charging ability. My first failure was on a shady street on Boise City OK. Really low Lithium battery, 7.5 volts. I bought a new AGM 14BS, a half block away, put in the acid, stuck it in the bike and rode away. I went several hours, spent the night near Guymon OK, rode the next day, stayed near Ponca City OK, rode the next morning to Coffeville KS, the battery died again. I walked a half mile and bought another 14BS (walmart carries these), put it in and rode to the Sedalia rally site. There's no knowing if any of those extra batteries were getting charged by the bike, but they definately did not get a "full overnight" charge before use, i just put in the acid and drove away.
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:31 AM   #43
Bobo1167
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Maybe the fancier led guage works better

http://f800depot.com/led-motorcycle-...e-monitor.html

I have one as above, it's stays green above 12volts, so by the time you get to yellow, ouch. Oh and in bright 100F temps you can only easily see red, yellow is dim, green invisible.

the one JR has linked to has more granularity about voltages.

Personally, I'm going to get another one of these...

http://www.aerostich.com/electronics...tal-meter.html

I used one for years on my GSPD, I trust it. It doesn't work when wet or real cold, but wakes up as the day dries out and warms.

RANT on........Why couldn't they have added a voltmeter function to the trip computer, or somewhere? Especially considering they used to do it for airheads, which didn't have a digital voltage cutoff point, just lousy electrics, but would run and drive safely with low voltages. Now we have slightly more modern electrics which are 100% dependent on proper voltages and we can't keep an eye on that. It's almost like providing no way to determine gasoline level, "oh just drive till it quits and call customer service". rant off

bobo
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #44
Bobo1167
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One more thought and I'll stop

I had a lot of time to think about why I got 60K + miles from my stator, which I'm told is a long time.

I live near Seattle, we have better natural cooling than many other places. I don't think I had the bike in 100F prior to the trip when the stator failed. I did drive to alaska last year, many hours of the biggest load i could create (heated vest, grips, high beam, radio, gps). And there have been many times with a similar load over the years (not for most of a day though). But mostly I travel in cooler climes. Nothing else makes any sense, except dumb luck.

JR can you add a home latitude to the poll? I wonder how many early failures are below 40, or how many high mileage successes are above 50? Maybe this is why BMW didn't find it early on, too much testing in northern Europe?

bobo
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:29 PM   #45
JRWooden OP
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Just catching up here:

I don't know how to add "extra" data/questions to the poll ... I tried once and it didn't seem like it was possible...
If someone knows differently please PM me ... higher ambient temperatures might play a roll, I can't say ... but since the stator is operating at nearly 200C I would tend to think the ambient operating temperature would not make a big difference ... but that's just a guess...

I test drove a 650XCountry some time back and one of the selectable displays for the OBC (along with MPG, temperature and the rest) was battery voltage ... I really don't know why BMW could not do that for use ... but well it's not there ...

I agree the 4-digit digital display is more informative but was trying to find a happy medium between geekdom/distraction and having useful data. The LED I used is supposed to change from green to yellow once voltage drops to less than 12.9V. Since the system sometime charges at as low as 13.3V I figured this would be close enough....



With regards to the max. output of the Electrosport stator, I am afraid I do not know the answer ... sorry...
Not sure if it is still 400W or if some output was sacrificed.
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