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Old 08-13-2014, 09:38 AM   #1
wadenelson OP
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When in doubt, throttle it out...

Yeah, ok, we're all in agreement that if you find yourself coming into a corner too hot that

1) Grabbing a handful of brake, or rolling off the throttle is the exact WRONG thing to do
2) That getting more weight shift / lean is the right thing to do,

Along with not target fixating on the CHP cruiser, cliff, oncoming truck, centerline....

But what about the belief expressed by MANY riders that you want or need to roll ON the throttle when applying additional lean?

What's the basis for this?

I know a LOT of riders who agree it's the right thing to do. But why?

Why would applying power, additional torque to the rear tire HELP you when you're approaching your limits of traction anyway?

"It just does" isn't a sufficient answer, sorry...
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:50 AM   #2
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Read Keith Code's "A Twist of the Wrist 2". Besides it being a great instructional book, he explains how slightly adding throttle in a corner will tighten the line. While your (my) brain may have a hard time accepting this, practice will convince it thus making it a natural reaction to going wide.

p.s., Huntsville is my home town.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:51 AM   #3
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If you're gonna crash, you might as well make it spectacular.

Might help prevent a highside, too.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #4
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OFF pavement: When in doubt, trhottle it out.
ON pavement: If in doubt, brake!

OF COURSE when I'm coming too hot into a corner I will brake. I don't want to push my luck.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wadenelson View Post
But what about the belief expressed by MANY riders that you want or need to roll ON the throttle when applying additional lean?

What's the basis for this?
*DISCLAIMER THIS IS 10/10th already sliding around shit*

There are a couple reasons.

1) You are trying to keep weight at the rear of the bike, sport bikes are front end biased AND you have about triple the rear contact patch in the back....and don't give me that freshmen physics crap, I know Coluomb's Law, but if tires were pure friction we would call it friction, not traction. So yes, size matters.

2) The effective radius of the tires gets smaller as you approach the edges, you actually run into this at a few tracks where there are kinks in the main straights (VIR for one) you are already running balls out in high gear, you can actually hit the limiter when you throttle through the kink. So to maintain speed more throttle must be applied.

3) Given the above, if you maintain steady throttle at the limit of lateral adhesion the slowing puts more weight on an already overloaded front end, choping the throttle is worse. This is why the response (track and dirt) to the front washing is giving it the berries, if you don't you are DEFINATELY going to lose the front end, which tends to hurt...a lot.

...again, that is when you are SERIOUSLY makin bacon. Code wrote all of that from the perspective of a racer, and race coach.

So far as it goes, there is more than enough traction on warm tires that you don't have to worry about most of it, if you don't do anything sudden you will be fine. I've actually had my 675 up on the front tire with a 25-30% lean on a track before .....its was definately an OH SHIT! moment, and I had to ride it out through the grass, but I didn't go down either.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:17 AM   #6
Tim McKittrick
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On my old airhead BMW's the shaft effect was great enough that adding power would raise the rear of the bike and increase cornering clearance. One technique was to add power and rear brake at the same time in order to lift the back of there bike but not change ones velocity.

This saved me a few times when I overcooked a corner and the heads began to get in the way.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
OFF pavement: When in doubt, trhottle it out.
ON pavement: If in doubt, brake!

OF COURSE when I'm coming too hot into a corner I will brake. I don't want to push my luck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloMo228 View Post
If you're gonna crash, you might as well make it spectacular.

Might help prevent a highside, too.
Giving it too much throttle while leaned is what causes highsides (on pavement). As the rear starts to wash out, snapping the throttle shut causes the rear to instantly grip the tarmac and whip it back in line subsequently launching you to the moon. Now that will be spectacular!
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasrider View Post

Giving it too much throttle while leaned is what causes highsides (on pavement). As the rear starts to wash out, snapping the throttle shut causes the rear to instantly grip the tarmac and whip it back in line subsequently launching you to the moon. Now that will be spectacular!
Hence why you stay in the throttle.

That is a trueism that is literally as old as dirt.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:00 AM   #9
dasrider
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exactly, I guess I should have clarified that keeping maintenance throttle through the turn is ideal.

If you've begun the highside sequence, don't snap it shut!
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dasrider View Post
exactly, I guess I should have clarified that keeping maintenance throttle through the turn is ideal.

If you've begun the highside sequence, don't snap it shut!
Then again WAY to much throttle when the tail is sliding low sides you.

I pick that.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
OFF pavement: When in doubt, trhottle it out.
ON pavement: If in doubt, brake!

OF COURSE when I'm coming too hot into a corner I will brake. I don't want to push my luck.
OFF pavement: When in doubt, throttle it out.

ON pavement: It really depends on the situation. If you are just getting into the curve and still have room, then brake. If you are already at full lean braking will put you down real quick. Also keep in mind that some bikes want to stand up when you brake which may make you run wide. Some shaft drive bikes have better ground clearance on the gas and less when off the gas.

So, when in doubt, the best bet is to know your bike, know yourself, and know how to ride so you can make the best decision.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post

So, when in doubt, the best bet is to know your bike, know yourself, and know how to ride so you can make the best decision.
In my experience throttle is nearly always the answer.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
In my experience throttle is nearly always the answer.
In my experience throttle is nearly always the most fun, but sometimes I have to use the brakes.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
In my experience throttle is nearly always the answer.
Is that because you commit to the corner to such an extent that you really have little choice but to lean in and throttle on?

ie you're going too fast to brake...
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:36 AM   #15
Tripped1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
Is that because you commit to the corner to such an extent that you really have little choice but to lean in and throttle on?

ie you're going too fast to brake...
On the road, hell no, I don't gas it till I know what is coming.

On the ttrack, fuck yes, I have a map, if I fuck it up, well I fucked it up.
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