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Old 04-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #1741
Vulfy OP
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Originally Posted by Shastarider View Post
Great thread. I cannot understand for the life of me why this has not really taken off outside of Japan. Local races should be as easy to find as auto-cross!

Can anyone say how well the $50.00 infrared timers have been working? I would like to hear some pros/cons before pulling the trigger.

Best of luck to those of you who I see are regular posters in this thread. In my opinion you are in process of lighting a nice, fun fire!
It was in US for a brief period of time as Battle Trax. There is an interesting thread over at Amgrass forums, from a person who started it here in USA. The end result was that as soon as money was involved in it, even though the original was very popular, sponsors wanted too much control and tried to change rules that actually hurt the experience, as well as a lot of copy cats sprung up, who just wanted a quick buck from the popularity of it, but didn't necessarily understood what made it competitive and fun. Not to mention, the love of USA of lawyers, insurance, and the overall paranoia against motorcycles.

Right now, this sport is very grass roots again. We'll see how it all goes and turns out.

As far as the infrared timers, they work well, for me at least. Batteries last a good while in the beacons, and receiver seems to pick up the beam without too much problems. The positioning of the receiver on the bike, as well as angle and height of the beacons is pretty important though. One thing to keep in mind, is that you need TWO beacons, and the ones sold on Amazon as well as Ebay only come with one.

This site has beacons only, as well as ability to order the timer with two beacons. It should come straight from Hong Kong.

Now I have no affiliation with that website. Its a little wonky, and somewhat unprofessional looking. I ordered from them and received mine without any hassle, but your experience may vary. I'm just sharing where I got mine.

http://www.sumomoto.com/bestlap.htm
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:58 PM   #1742
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Just a suggestion......have you considered loosely pairing with police motor comps? They will very like to not want have an official tie due to the lawyers and such as you mentioned. Be that said, if you could find an event that has enough space, you may be able to put on a side by side event. Say an adjacent parking lot. The motor comps draw spectators and on top of that lots of retired motor guys are present who would just jump all over Gymkhana if more knew about it. If you are looking for a calendar of those extents type in Setcom and go to police training. The majority are listed there.
Good luck!
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:24 PM   #1743
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Originally Posted by Shastarider View Post
Just a suggestion......have you considered loosely pairing with police motor comps? They will very like to not want have an official tie due to the lawyers and such as you mentioned. Be that said, if you could find an event that has enough space, you may be able to put on a side by side event. Say an adjacent parking lot. The motor comps draw spectators and on top of that lots of retired motor guys are present who would just jump all over Gymkhana if more knew about it. If you are looking for a calendar of those extents type in Setcom and go to police training. The majority are listed there.
Good luck!
This is MY event, MY parking lot, MY course... Get used to hearing that a lot. Or saying it, because that's how it will end up anyway.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:56 PM   #1744
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This is MY event, MY parking lot, MY course... Get used to hearing that a lot. Or saying it, because that's how it will end up anyway.
You can say that again.....................
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:08 AM   #1745
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Did you guys have a bad experience with a cop rodeo?
We haven't approached any such organizations yet, just wondering what happened.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:26 AM   #1746
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Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
Did you guys have a bad experience with a cop rodeo?
We haven't approached any such organizations yet, just wondering what happened.
I've left the wrong impression about police involvement. It's not police that are the issue, but the egos involved in trying to have more than one chief in one camp.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:30 AM   #1747
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Did you guys have a bad experience with a cop rodeo?
We haven't approached any such organizations yet, just wondering what happened.
Not a cop rodeo but the state chapter of the organization that puts on the riders education stuff. The name escapes me, but its the one that does the beginner riding course and a few others. They conned us into coming down to their place and putting on a Gymkhana. I think we put on 2 down there with no problems.
This year's spring event they said they would run it and we could ride. They said we would have a part of their HUGE parking lot to set-up a course, they would set-up some of the basic courses, and run it so we could just ride.
When 2 of our members showed up, they had used the area for our course to set up a trike "Gymkhana" course.

Trikes can not DO a Gymkhana course, the turning radius is to BIG, you do not lean a TRIKE, your steer a trike like a CAR.

Gymkhana, the type we do at lest, is for MOTORCYCLES.

What pissed me off is that one of our members drew up a good course lay-out, packed up a bunch of cones, then could not set-up.

Some of the members stayed and rode the courses set-up for motorcycles. It was fun, so I heard. I rode a couple of the course's but just was not into it.

That part of Alabama has some great back roads to ride so I left to do some high speed riding.

That indecent has some what divided our group. One of the more vocal members wants to make nice about it. He owns the site we are on and owns AMGRASS so I guess he will get his way...........as usually.

We have had 2 threads started on putting our spring event on. Both have gotten hardly any responses. No one is stepping up and taking the lead on this now.
Our group needs a leader who will lead.

It is a damn shame if you ask me.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:55 AM   #1748
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Shame to hear that, ego can definitely get the best of us. Thanks for sharing. As unfortunate your experience is, we'll try to learn from it here in NY, so again thank you for sharing.

We haven't been under anyone's umbrella yet, although the conversation has come up multiple times and it does seem like an attractive option.

I personally am trying to be very careful about this, as I do not want to end up in this situation, where someone is making a "favour" to our group, by allowing us to ride on their lot or in their group. We have our own priorities and interests, and the only thing that can make it mutually comfortable and agreeable, is if those interests and priorities go hand in hand with any other potential partner group. At least in a long run.

Hope you guys figure it all out.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:36 AM   #1749
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My toppity top tip for anybody who wants to get involved in Moto Gymkhana is to run all their events according to the Adachi System of rules and procedures. These have taken over 30 years to develop and provide the safest and most reliable methodology for event organisation.

It beats me why anybody would want to use a different methodology when the Adachi System is so easy to understand and operate, but that is what seems to be happening in various parts of the US. Maybe it's because people tend to think that just riding around a few cones is dead easy and that any old system will do, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

What we have found is that by following the Adachi System riders in countries all around the world have a common set of objectives and a reliable way of comparing their progress. The further benefits of using the Adachi System is that there is a proven safety record in that in any event where the system has been used correctly there has never been a fatality of a rider or spectator. Broken bones are rare and there will always be the odd bump and scrape due to a fall, but considering it's a sport Moto Gymkhana must have the most enviable safety record of any motorsport.

A good example of why the Adachi System is so good can be found with the experience of the Moto Gymkhana group in the Ukraine. Their riders entered a Moto Rodeo that was organised by the Police in Kiev and they absolutely smoked everybody on the course! Although the Moto Rodeo has a reasonably good structure, the courses are fiendishly difficult to manage especially for beginners. Adachi System courses on the other hand are easy for newbies yet still provide a high degree of difficulty for the more experienced riders.

The Adachi System rules are available (in English) from www.motogymkhana.org or drop me an email at duncan@motogymkhana.org
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:36 PM   #1750
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Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
My toppity top tip for anybody who wants to get involved in Moto Gymkhana is to run all their events according to the Adachi System of rules and procedures. These have taken over 30 years to develop and provide the safest and most reliable methodology for event organisation.

It beats me why anybody would want to use a different methodology when the Adachi System is so easy to understand and operate, but that is what seems to be happening in various parts of the US. Maybe it's because people tend to think that just riding around a few cones is dead easy and that any old system will do, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

What we have found is that by following the Adachi System riders in countries all around the world have a common set of objectives and a reliable way of comparing their progress. The further benefits of using the Adachi System is that there is a proven safety record in that in any event where the system has been used correctly there has never been a fatality of a rider or spectator. Broken bones are rare and there will always be the odd bump and scrape due to a fall, but considering it's a sport Moto Gymkhana must have the most enviable safety record of any motorsport.

A good example of why the Adachi System is so good can be found with the experience of the Moto Gymkhana group in the Ukraine. Their riders entered a Moto Rodeo that was organised by the Police in Kiev and they absolutely smoked everybody on the course! Although the Moto Rodeo has a reasonably good structure, the courses are fiendishly difficult to manage especially for beginners. Adachi System courses on the other hand are easy for newbies yet still provide a high degree of difficulty for the more experienced riders.

The Adachi System rules are available (in English) from www.motogymkhana.org or drop me an email at duncan@motogymkhana.org


I'll tell you from experience why people don't want to use the adachi style (or any for that matter) rule book:

1 it's a rule book
2 membership fees for competition, and reporting to 'someone else'
3 no pre-runs (to my understanding) allowed
4 tire regulations, noise (sadly there are a LOT OF REALLY SAFE PIPES OUT THERE LOL) regulations, etc


I understand the reasoning for all the rules, regulations, and guidelines. A few of them I personally don't really get excited about but still accept. The main thing is that the best we've really ever done is just toss cones in a parking lot and still manage to get people to show up.

Adding a fee, with or without a competition event or membership attached will absolutely KILL attendance and interest.



BUT:
Proving people with a safe parking lot to practice, gain skill, and achieve -personal- goals really works well.

Maybe I'm going about it all wrong, I dunno.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:38 AM   #1751
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My toppity top tip for anybody who wants to get involved in Moto Gymkhana is to run all their events according to the Adachi System of rules and procedures.
I can fully understand where ohgood is coming from (see above post). One of the joys of biking for me is, when a bunch of like minded riders get together to share a common interest, be that working on new skills or just improving your own time around some cones, its freedom from the strict and sometimes controlling rules of everyday life.

But, and there is always a but...
Like it or not we are all competitive creatures, we all know that feeling of satisfaction when you make that fast turn better than you've done before and the disappointment of not getting it right. And if a guy goes faster than me around some cones, I will want to see if I can beat him, I won't always succeed, but I will try. And I will want to know, if he did beat me that he did it fair and square, I like a level playing field. Lets face it if we didn't enjoy a bit of competition we would just ride around cones on our own.

But (I told you there would be a "but") I will try to tilt that playing field in my favor, and consider all tactics available to compete at a level I am happy with. Slicks... why not, tire warmers... sure, knocking down the odd cone? what wrong with that.

I may not agree with all of the rules, but I am happy to compete under those rules, because without rules you don't have freedom, you just have anarchy. Its that common framework of understanding that will encourage more riders to take part.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:04 AM   #1752
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I very much take Ohgood's point about just turning up and getting stuck in (something we heartily recommend), but as Jezza has said there comes a time when things start to get a bit competetive as they always do. The reason for having our very simple system and methodology is that it promotes understanding of what exactly is being asked of a rider and reduces the opportunity for accidents and incidents. Some of our rules like not having rotations or eights on the warm-up course, or stopping completely in the goal box are designed to stop riders bumping into each other or knocking over spectators which is something that would soon put a stop to activities. Other rules such as time penalties for knocking over pylons or putting a foot down are there to encourage more accurate riding and to give the crowd something to cheer when a top rider makes a silly mistake!

We do find that there are a number of riders that do not want to ride in competitions, but who do want to ride in the far less formal Practice & Play events that we promote. These are as close to a free-for-all that it's possible to get with riders having unlimited attempts at the course and maybe take time out to practice certain obstacles such as GP8 and Hitch etc. We have discovered that quite often the riders who do not initially want to compete get the bug very badly after a few practice sessions and finally decide to enter competitions as well. Moto Gymkhana is all about starting easy and working up to top rider status and our rule structure allows newbies to co-exist happily with the faster and more agressive riders.

I suppose the curse of all motorsports is that they become 'politicised' with factions and sub-groups forming that think their way is somehow 'better', but all this really does is to ruin the sport that everybody turned up for in the first place. To avoid this we tend to promote a more egalitarian structure that pretty well lets people get on with doing what they want to do with the only requirement being that everybody mucks in to help out. This promotes a great feeling of belonging which is is much appreciated by new riders as they are immediately included in all the activities and their thoughts and comments are always welcomed. With regards to money, the only reason we have to make a small charge for competition entry is that it just covers the cost of our event insurance which is mandatory in the UK as is the requirement that all riders are members of the same club.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:11 PM   #1753
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Glad you didn't take it the wrong way, (negatively).

We've had very good success using the common sense approach to events so far, we loose organization, very few rules, and still enjoying the FUN that is... riding motorcycles.

Thankfully, we have not insured any of the events to date, and there is no plan to in the future. Insurance is wickedly expensive for any type of public event here, and saying "motorcycle" during the pricing would likely make it even more prohibitively expensive.

There are a few small startups attempting to claim to be "the" way of doing things, and the fairly easy part to find is how to pay for the privilege of using a websites name at an event..... Which you and I will do ALL THE WORK at. That's another point to be considered with self proclaimed "official" sources of leadership or governing. People are wise to it, and look for other ways to play.

Last summer a small cruiser group of riding buddies organized a very nicely executed gymkhana event, complete with a motors cop (a club member) to demonstrate that the courses were possible to complete. Great crowd, great turnout. When I mentioned our local events in Birmingham (20 miles away) they shirked at the idea of doing anything outside their own group of riders. When I asked why, this was returned "we just don't want to pay a stranger for our own work".

Completely understood.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:55 PM   #1754
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thought id try a different camera angle in my muckng aroudn car park thing. on the rear wheel, with 2 cameras

http://youtu.be/eaG2vBLRTmE

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Old 04-27-2014, 04:50 PM   #1755
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Yes im rusty as hell now

sent from the enigma encryption machine
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