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Old 04-23-2013, 04:56 AM   #1081
ohgood
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gps isn't accurate enough.

chalk the tires in 6" quadrants towards the chicken strips. you'll see exactly where the tire is on the ground.

as far as going fast vs slow, slow and tight in the turns is a faster (shorter) overall time.

if you want some interesting numbers, get someones cellphone and load a gforce sensing app.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:35 AM   #1082
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... the bike will lean over quite happily at low speeds so long as it is changing direction quickly...
Perfect!
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:46 AM   #1083
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The iPhone apps such as Dynolicious and Harry's Lap timer are very good, but as you say, the GPS is not sufficiently accurate for our requirements.

Instead we use the Video VBOX and VBOX sport devices which work on Doppler shift and are much more accurate. I did do a screenshot video of the results we get from these devices and they are quite wonderful for analysing Moto Gymkhana time attacks.

The quality of the video is not the best, but it does give you an idea of how we use the data logger to compare and contrast riders and attacks.



The website for the VBOX sport contains some interesting information on the devices. http://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/inde...ers/vbox-sport
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #1084
thedrewski86
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Today's session.
FUN!
Man I know this was from a couple days ago but I just got back to this thread - very nice video! I did some similar runs inspired by this thread in a parking lot by my house. After 10 min of riding keeping in mind what I have skimmed from this thread I was cutting figure 8s tighter on my old 600 lb CBR faster and tighter than I thought possible. I didn't set cones up but there were a couple pairs of catch basins in the lot that allowed for an easy figure 8 and a tight one that was more challenging. Feathering the rear brake really helped tighten everything up. Thanks a lot!
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #1085
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thedrewski86: glad you are enjoying yourself and improving. Cheers

Found this guy on YouTube, from Poland I believe. VERY impressive!!!




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Old 04-23-2013, 07:08 PM   #1086
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That's the kind of stuff I was working on! I was just telling a riding buddy of mine today that we have to make this a weekly exercise. I'm hoping we can find a good parking lot for Saturday morning practices.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:51 PM   #1087
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Very cool. I would love to be able to control my bike like that. I'm a pretty new rider, with a new bike, and the riding season has just started, so I'm pretty much at level zero, but I'm interested in trying this out and building up my skills. Today I went out and was just trying to get a feel for the bike to see how it handles and what I can do with it.
I ride a Suzuki TU250, so it's a pretty lightweight bike. One thing I noticed is that in first gear the throttle is kind of like an on/off switch, so the bike'll just surge forward at the slightest input and jerk to a slow down when you roll the throttle off. I have a rear drum brake on the bike too (I'm not mechanically inclined, I just know that drum brakes are somehow not as good as disc brakes). It seemed to take a lot of pressure on the pedal to get the bike to run in first gear at an ultra slow speed. Is there anything I need to be aware of when I'm practicing this stuff, in terms of my drum brake?
Because of the surging, and jerky-ness at the edge of stalling, I was having to use the clutch a lot to smooth the bike out. I'm a bit disappointed with that but maybe if I get better and can do faster tight turns I won't need to use the clutch eventually.
Good thread.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #1088
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If the throttle is that on/off I would experiment w/ feathering the clutch and rear brake while doing tight turns. I would think eventually you should be able to just feather the rear brake but do what the bike wants. Also I'm sure the throttle character will get better with more experience. The drum should be fine so long as everything is in good adjustment. Good luck!
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:15 AM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbutus View Post
Very cool. I would love to be able to control my bike like that. I'm a pretty new rider, with a new bike, and the riding season has just started, so I'm pretty much at level zero, but I'm interested in trying this out and building up my skills. Today I went out and was just trying to get a feel for the bike to see how it handles and what I can do with it.
I ride a Suzuki TU250, so it's a pretty lightweight bike. One thing I noticed is that in first gear the throttle is kind of like an on/off switch, so the bike'll just surge forward at the slightest input and jerk to a slow down when you roll the throttle off. I have a rear drum brake on the bike too (I'm not mechanically inclined, I just know that drum brakes are somehow not as good as disc brakes). It seemed to take a lot of pressure on the pedal to get the bike to run in first gear at an ultra slow speed. Is there anything I need to be aware of when I'm practicing this stuff, in terms of my drum brake?
Because of the surging, and jerky-ness at the edge of stalling, I was having to use the clutch a lot to smooth the bike out. I'm a bit disappointed with that but maybe if I get better and can do faster tight turns I won't need to use the clutch eventually.
Good thread.

fix the throttle first, don't cover up the problem with brakes and clutch. those are wear items, and their wear will accellerate quickly if the throttle isn't working smoothly first. you'll be working a lot harder manipulating all three instead of getting the focus on technique.

that drum will get hot, just like a disc, be careful you don't melt the grease out of your wheel bearings.

we rode the tu250's this past summer, fantastic bikes, very very smooth, very friendly, and very fun. they handle GREAT and should give you a plenty of enjoyment and practice once the throttle is working right.

get some videos up !
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:42 AM   #1090
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Hi Arbutus and welcome to the world of Moto Gymkhana.

I wouldn't worry too much about being at level zero if I was you as that is the very best place to start!

Before you get into the meat of the various riding techniques, we recommend that you learn the "Golden Rule" of Moto Gymkhana which is that "Your bike goes where your nose is pointing"!! We call the technique the head-snap and here is a great slo-mo video of one of our friends in Japan demonstrating its use on the GP8 course.



If you get the hang of this technique then everything else becomes so much easier.

Another thing we recommend is the basic riding position which is butt - back, knees - in, head - up and elbows - out. Another thing to bear in mind is that it is supposed to be fun so get out there and enjoy it!
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #1091
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Also don't be afraid to set up a camera and film your runs. Much easier to see your mistakes as well as progress when you can see yourself from outside.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:23 PM   #1092
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Originally Posted by Motogymkhanaman View Post
Hi Arbutus and welcome to the world of Moto Gymkhana.

I wouldn't worry too much about being at level zero if I was you as that is the very best place to start!

Before you get into the meat of the various riding techniques, we recommend that you learn the "Golden Rule" of Moto Gymkhana which is that "Your bike goes where your nose is pointing"!! We call the technique the head-snap and here is a great slo-mo video of one of our friends in Japan demonstrating its use on the GP8 course.



If you get the hang of this technique then everything else becomes so much easier.

Another thing we recommend is the basic riding position which is butt - back, knees - in, head - up and elbows - out. Another thing to bear in mind is that it is supposed to be fun so get out there and enjoy it!
Thanks for the video, that's pretty cool. So he's not using the clutch at all, or the front brake (even though it seems you could use it in certain situations), but is he also not using the back break?? He's not *only* using throttle control is he? That would be impossible on my bike I think.

I think I might start off doing some higher speed, wider figure 8s to get used to turning like that and gradually work down to tighter turns. At a low speed right now, I know I have to look where I want to go, but I'm still working on balance btw using the clutch, the brake and throttle (as I'm sure everyone here knows, incredibly minor adjustments mean the difference between putting a foot down or going a bit wider than you wanted). It's really hard to look ahead like that when I feel the balance is shaky, but maybe it really does just take practice. I think a lot of the time I was looking through the turn but then down to see what was going on. I was also just trying to do the tightest turn possible, I haven't set up pylons or anything yet.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:26 PM   #1093
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Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
fix the throttle first, don't cover up the problem with brakes and clutch. those are wear items, and their wear will accellerate quickly if the throttle isn't working smoothly first. you'll be working a lot harder manipulating all three instead of getting the focus on technique.

that drum will get hot, just like a disc, be careful you don't melt the grease out of your wheel bearings.

we rode the tu250's this past summer, fantastic bikes, very very smooth, very friendly, and very fun. they handle GREAT and should give you a plenty of enjoyment and practice once the throttle is working right.

get some videos up !
Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by fix the throttle? I do love the TU so far, very fun to ride, very forgiving and generally smooth, except (seemingly) for at a very low speed in first gear from coasting to throttle, and back.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:32 PM   #1094
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Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by fix the throttle? I do love the TU so far, very fun to ride, very forgiving and generally smooth, except (seemingly) for at a very low speed in first gear from coasting to throttle, and back.
it was very smooth, never jerky, on the two I rode. find out why yours is like an on/off switch and you'll be smoother on your practices to.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:37 PM   #1095
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That rider is most definitely using rear brake, and I'm pretty sure he uses front as well, just lets go of the lever at the tightest point, to roll on the throttle. Yes, no clutch.

I wouldn't go too deep into all of this right away, as it can get a bit overwhelming, especially if you are a new rider altogether. Keep it simple, and do one step at a time. Once you are comfortable with what the step you are doing, you can start adding on top of it.

I think you are right about just starting wider figure 8. Get used to the bike leaning, find the confidence in your tires.

Simplest exercise Alabama guys posted, is a 20 foot diameter circle. Thats about the width of two lane road or about two parking spaces. Just get something to mark the circle, cut tennis balls, cones, or even cans of coke would do the trick. Start riding the circle from outside, and then as you get more comfortable, start moving into the circle. Do a few laps one way, then reverse. This is a great exercise which will show you where you are with the bike.

Here is the video, courtesy Amgrass.com

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