ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-28-2013, 07:03 AM   #1
r60man OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
r60man's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Robesonia PA
Oddometer: 331
R75/6 not starting

Hello all.

The bike is a 1975 R75/6 produced in December of 1974.

I recently redid my steering head bearings. When doing this I needed to remove the tank, and the headlight. It started and ran fine before the bearing replacement, battery has been on a tender and appears strong. I did not disconnect the headlight entirely, I simply loosened it and wire tied it to the frame. I reassembled the bike, and when I went to start it I got nothing. The bike does not turn over. There is no click at the relay. The lights all work, as does the horn. Indicator lights work as well.

I checked my battery and connections and they are all good and tight. I have looked at everything and I do not see anything obviously amiss, but then again I could have missed something. There is an empty prong on the ignition switch, the second one in from the front of the headlight, not sure if maybe something got knocked off of that when the switch was taken out to remove the headlight. But looking at it, there are no marks looking like a connector was ever on there.

Electrics are my bane. I do not own a multi-meter. Are there simple ways I can isolate the problem and eliminate potential issues?

Thanks,
R60
__________________
K1100RS, R75/6

Speed doesn't kill anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you - Jeremy Clarkson
r60man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 07:13 AM   #2
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,890
I hear you when you say that electric is not a strong suit but you will have to use a wiring diagram maybe. There should be one in any manual, either the Hayne's or Clymer's manual. You find the ignition switch in the wiring diagram and you should be able to see what color wires go to it. This is a start. The way we all had to struggle with these things is stare at the wiring diagram and stare at the headlight long enough and it should make more sense eventually. A little clue; All the info you need is generally in the wiring diagram.

Now check to see if you haven't accidentally tripped the Kill Switch on the right handlebar.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 10:37 AM   #3
r60man OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
r60man's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Robesonia PA
Oddometer: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
I hear you when you say that electric is not a strong suit but you will have to use a wiring diagram maybe. There should be one in any manual, either the Hayne's or Clymer's manual. You find the ignition switch in the wiring diagram and you should be able to see what color wires go to it. This is a start. The way we all had to struggle with these things is stare at the wiring diagram and stare at the headlight long enough and it should make more sense eventually. A little clue; All the info you need is generally in the wiring diagram.

Now check to see if you haven't accidentally tripped the Kill Switch on the right handlebar.
The kill switch was the first thing I checked. I will look at the diagram tonight.
__________________
K1100RS, R75/6

Speed doesn't kill anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you - Jeremy Clarkson
r60man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 11:33 AM   #4
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by r60man View Post
Hello all.

The bike is a 1975 R75/6 produced in December of 1974.

I recently redid my steering head bearings. When doing this I needed to remove the tank, and the headlight. It started and ran fine before the bearing replacement, battery has been on a tender and appears strong. I did not disconnect the headlight entirely, I simply loosened it and wire tied it to the frame. I reassembled the bike, and when I went to start it I got nothing. The bike does not turn over. There is no click at the relay. The lights all work, as does the horn. Indicator lights work as well.

I checked my battery and connections and they are all good and tight. I have looked at everything and I do not see anything obviously amiss, but then again I could have missed something. There is an empty prong on the ignition switch, the second one in from the front of the headlight, not sure if maybe something got knocked off of that when the switch was taken out to remove the headlight. But looking at it, there are no marks looking like a connector was ever on there.

Electrics are my bane. I do not own a multi-meter. Are there simple ways I can isolate the problem and eliminate potential issues?

Thanks,
R60
Get a cheap digital multimeter and lose the attitude. You are completely capable. But your mindset going in has a lot to do with the results you will get. Consider yourself ignorant but a bundle of untapped potential---and a quick study. You will find yourself becoming gifted at electrical diagnosis and repair rather quickly. Too many people say, "oh, I'm no good at electrical..'. Bullshit. They haven't tried it, and with a relaxed, willing and open mind.

Something pretty non-obvious can be going on when multiple wires connect to the same tab on some device. only one or maybe two wires have anything to do with the device. The others are just using the tab as a connector point to take power off to somewhere else. So the overall circuit is not a 'spider' with all the power radiating from a central point, it's more of a 'net'.

Wires of a certain color combination are always switched power, or sometimes fused power. Other color combinations are always unswitched or sometimes unfused.

The bike uses the standard DIN (German) color coding for things. look it up online and tuck a copy in with your wiring diagram.


Some wires go nowhere and do nothing. They were built into the harness for accessories that you don't have. Extremely common on cars.


A booklet is available that just goes into the charging system and all it's fine points. Worth having.

A few electrical devices are easy to understand. Like a light bulb. Others you can learn what they are and how they work (just like you learned about the bearings) or you can simply learn what they are supposed to do and how to test them. What's happening inside the little box can be ignored. So be ready to be at peace with not knowing a few things. You can get it all working anyway.
Plaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #5
Captdan
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Oddometer: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by r60man View Post
Hello all.

The bike is a 1975 R75/6 produced in December of 1974.

I recently redid my steering head bearings. When doing this I needed to remove the tank, and the headlight. It started and ran fine before the bearing replacement, battery has been on a tender and appears strong. I did not disconnect the headlight entirely, I simply loosened it and wire tied it to the frame. I reassembled the bike, and when I went to start it I got nothing. The bike does not turn over. There is no click at the relay. The lights all work, as does the horn. Indicator lights work as well.

I checked my battery and connections and they are all good and tight. I have looked at everything and I do not see anything obviously amiss, but then again I could have missed something. There is an empty prong on the ignition switch, the second one in from the front of the headlight, not sure if maybe something got knocked off of that when the switch was taken out to remove the headlight. But looking at it, there are no marks looking like a connector was ever on there.

Electrics are my bane. I do not own a multi-meter. Are there simple ways I can isolate the problem and eliminate potential issues?

Thanks,
R60

I've had to go through the same leanring curve. First, the connection on the rear of the ignition switch is not connected on mine eather. So, not sure what that connects to, but not needed to run well. Second, go get a multimeter. These things are golden and will save you money in the long run. Third, after you get the meter pull the red wire from the ignition switch and see if you have power, if so, then switch in and check the two connections where green wires connect. With the switch on you should have 12 volts. If not then your switch may be bad. You mentioned your connections, but also check the ground connection. This this is corroded up then clean and retighten. Check connectivity on the ground wire too. If the battery is not sealed check the water level. I've had batteries show 12 volts by meter and not really have enough to fire the bike ( odd but true). You may also want to buy a shop manual... Another invaluable tool. Sooner or later you will locate the problem ( always the last place you look). Good luck, you'll fix it...
__________________
1965 Cushman super silver eagle, 1968 BMW R-60/2, 1974 R-90/6 cafe, 2008 R-1200 GSA.
Captdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 02:14 PM   #6
Horsehockey
A GPS? Huh?
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 313
If it were mine, I'd remove, inspect, clean and re-install the two 8 amp fuses in the headlamp bucket. Then test. When that doesn't work, I'd remove the two red wire connectors into the starter relay (under the tank, left side of the main spine, below the brake master cylinder). Same drill: inspect, clean, dielectric grease, reinstall and test.
Horsehockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #7
r60man OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
r60man's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Robesonia PA
Oddometer: 331
There has been some progress. First off I have found three different wiring diagrams. One is this one: http://r90sclub.dudley.nu/Articles/R...ram.pdfhttp:// However I can not read the numbers next to the key switch easily. Then the others I have are in the Haynes manual. The one is for "1973 to 1974 /6 models" which has no numbers on it. The other, which I think would be the right one is for 1975 to 1976 /6 models, however my bike was built in 12/74 so which would be the right one? Egads.

But I found this:


As you can see it is a black wire with a factory end on it.

Here it the back of the key switch and it looks like this:


So I have a tab numbered #56 which looks like it has a wire attached to it. However when I connect this wire the bike starts to turn over! Hey progress, problem is that this turning over has no relation to the use of a starter switch! So not right? But maybe it is? Any thoughts or the pointing to the proper wiring diagram would be awesome.
__________________
K1100RS, R75/6

Speed doesn't kill anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you - Jeremy Clarkson
r60man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 07:19 PM   #8
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 5,893
Never ever start plugging in wires at random. Good way to let the Magic Smoke out of the electrics, and then you'll really have Wiring Bane.

Terminal 56 is designated "Spot Beam" and is prolly the connection for driving lights. The Black wire energizes the starter solenoid and probably comes from Terminal 50 of the solenoid. Find out what sort of relay/interlock/safety switch goes between the starter button and that Black wire.

--Bill
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Luddite. Not just a philosophy, a way of life...
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 06:51 AM   #9
r60man OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
r60man's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Robesonia PA
Oddometer: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Never ever start plugging in wires at random. Good way to let the Magic Smoke out of the electrics, and then you'll really have Wiring Bane.

Terminal 56 is designated "Spot Beam" and is prolly the connection for driving lights. The Black wire energizes the starter solenoid and probably comes from Terminal 50 of the solenoid. Find out what sort of relay/interlock/safety switch goes between the starter button and that Black wire.

--Bill
Your right, that is a bad idea. Here is the thing with the black wire. It is not supposed to be in the headlight, if it is #50, it is supposed to go to the starter relay under the tank. According to my wiring diagrams there are no black wires in the headlight. Sigh.
__________________
K1100RS, R75/6

Speed doesn't kill anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you - Jeremy Clarkson
r60man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 08:28 AM   #10
Horsehockey
A GPS? Huh?
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 313
Mr. Harris was probably right. That looks like the connector for your parking lamp. Look at your headlamp bulb connection. Is there an unused male connector right next to it? Do you have a small parking lamp bulb in your headlamp? If you have no parking lamp, or parking lamp bulb, then that unused black female is likely irrelevant to your issue.
Horsehockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 06:24 PM   #11
r60man OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
r60man's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Robesonia PA
Oddometer: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsehockey View Post
Mr. Harris was probably right. That looks like the connector for your parking lamp. Look at your headlamp bulb connection. Is there an unused male connector right next to it? Do you have a small parking lamp bulb in your headlamp? If you have no parking lamp, or parking lamp bulb, then that unused black female is likely irrelevant to your issue.
Parking lamp is fully connected and working. I poked around a bit tonight and looked at things. There are some empty tabs on the board in the back of the light, but they all look to have been empty for some time.

Someone had mentioned fuses. I looked but I can not find them. According to my Haynes manual they are supposed to be mounted on the bucket. I can not find them for the life of me. Where are the fuses?
__________________
K1100RS, R75/6

Speed doesn't kill anyone, suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you - Jeremy Clarkson
r60man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 07:44 PM   #12
Horsehockey
A GPS? Huh?
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by r60man View Post
Parking lamp is fully connected and working. I poked around a bit tonight and looked at things. There are some empty tabs on the board in the back of the light, but they all look to have been empty for some time.

Someone had mentioned fuses. I looked but I can not find them. According to my Haynes manual they are supposed to be mounted on the bucket. I can not find them for the life of me. Where are the fuses?
The two 8 amp fuses are inside the headlamp bucket. They're the two horizontal objects on the white terminal board shown in the picture.
http://img.tapatalk.com/a81c22c3-0593-b0fb.jpg

I can't put anymore time in tonite, but maybe some more progress can be made tomorrow.
Horsehockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 08:10 PM   #13
Plaka
Brevis illi vita est
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Oddometer: 4,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by r60man View Post
Parking lamp is fully connected and working. I poked around a bit tonight and looked at things. There are some empty tabs on the board in the back of the light, but they all look to have been empty for some time.

Someone had mentioned fuses. I looked but I can not find them. According to my Haynes manual they are supposed to be mounted on the bucket. I can not find them for the life of me. Where are the fuses?
Someone may have moved them outside the bucket already. Smart. There should be empty fuseholders present or they may have a rig in them for the wiring to the remote fuses.

Post a picture of the inside of the bucket.
Plaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:31 PM   #14
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,890
This the wiring board from the back of the headlight shell. Notice the color coded terminals that corespond to the wire color thaty is supposed to be hooked up there and the two European type fuses. It is a popular modification to move the fuses outside the headlight bucket but if they are in their original position this is what you will see.



It is a common occurrence with mysteries on the machine that we think these wires have been mysteriously moved around. But do at least check the fuses since this seems something you don't know about. It is not a part of the starting problem. The two fuses have nothing to do with ignition or starting.

Earlier you said you had the tank off? The starter relay is under the tank. The wire terminals of the starter relay get temperamental and need to be cleaned. You will probably get the bike started by merely wiggling the wires to the sytarter relay. The starter relay is on the left side of the frame under the tank. It is a most common source of the problem you have.

__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2013, 11:39 PM   #15
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,890
The other pic was a /6. This is a little better pic but of a /5



Each terminal needs to be pulled off and sprayed with contact cleaner and reinstalled. Wiggling these wires will often start a reluctant to start bike.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, piratejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014