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Old 05-13-2012, 02:14 AM   #46
PSYCHO II
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Point is you don't need to use all four. Plus quick transition might just be the difference needed in a given situation, like letting off the brakes while holding the bars for control... hard to do when holding the brake with 4 fingers. Think about it, if the front end starts to wash out, what are you going to do? Hold on a bit tighter and make an effort to correct quickly. If you hold on tighter with four fingers you just held the brake on tighter. I don't have that problem when holding on with two fingers and braking with the other two. Learned that within the first few months of riding the trials bike back in 71.
Point is that this thread was about hard braking. Think about it as you are needing to stop as quickly as you can. Road traffic situations on good bitumen as stated by the OP and not your "bush bashing" cowboy trails. Not your panic lock ups or other poor skills. If you can't get your four fingers off the brake and back around the handle bars for a smooth countersteering manoeuvre then what chance does such an action have with still two fingers on the brake. Front brake on whilst turning the handles bars then expect... CRASH... CRASH... CRASH
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:11 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by stonefly
Im interested in how y'all practice your hard braking and avoidance maneuvers. Anything in particular I should be focusing on? Any bad habits I need to avoid?
I think my comment addresses this quite well. You can be the greatest at braking in the world, but if you get into something without enough stopping distance you are SOL! So why not let a new rider know the real secret - stay out of trouble in the first place when possible.


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Originally Posted by PSYCHO II View Post
Point is that this thread was about hard braking. Think about it as you are needing to stop as quickly as you can. Road traffic situations on good bitumen as stated by the OP and not your "bush bashing" cowboy trails. Not your panic lock ups or other poor skills. If you can't get your four fingers off the brake and back around the handle bars for a smooth countersteering manoeuvre then what chance does such an action have with still two fingers on the brake. Front brake on whilst turning the handles bars then expect... CRASH... CRASH... CRASH
Geez, I wish you would have told me that years ago... I'd have fallen off numerous times rather than actually use the brakes while in a turn. I apologize for going beyond your limits of knowledge and skill.

I don't need to take those two fingers off the brake to steer. Seems I learned enough to actually do it with a finger or two on the lever. See, you never always know what you might encounter in a corner.

Sorry to tell you, if you think you can not use a front brake while steering in a corner you've got a lot to learn. In street riding at anything over a cruiser pace on any of the lesser travelled pavement, it's a good thing to know how to do it.

As for my "bush bashing" cowboy trails, what a shame you don't realize what you are missing. Of course that leaves the roads less travelled for we who enjoy it.

Oh, and with about 30 years of no seriously close calls or crashes, I think that "bush bashing" (along with some practicing while riding because it is part of the fun) has eliminated any panic lock ups and poor skills. I leave that for riders like you to demonstrate.

Salute!
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:18 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by PSYCHO II View Post
Point is that this thread was about hard braking. Think about it as you are needing to stop as quickly as you can. Road traffic situations on good bitumen as stated by the OP and not your "bush bashing" cowboy trails. Not your panic lock ups or other poor skills. If you can't get your four fingers off the brake and back around the handle bars for a smooth countersteering manoeuvre then what chance does such an action have with still two fingers on the brake. Front brake on whilst turning the handles bars then expect... CRASH... CRASH... CRASH
Bullshit.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:19 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by marine_mike View Post
I have pretty open communication with the gentleman that's going to be teaching my MSF course since he is also bringing my SP 250 up to par. When I told him that I was puttsing around the block trying to practice some stuff...he immediately told me to stop practicing. It makes his job harder during the course.

He's right of course. He's going to teach you a method of riding that is pretty sound. Kind of like a teacher teaching you writing. After you learn, you start to develop your own style and method that work for you. He cannot really have one guy going off doing his own thing when trying to teach the rest of the class, no freestyling. When I was training to teach ATV safety, we covered that a bit. If I ran into it I'd call the student aside and simply ask that they please do as I teach for the classtime, they can do what they want when they hit the road. It's like basic training, don't care what you know or do, just follow instructions for the course. Failure to do so will result in failure of the course.

I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of MSF instructors actually brake with less than 4 fingers when they ride. They might even go over the speed limit and ride over the recommended speed for corners, not to mention some who might even do a wheelie out in the middle of nowhere. For simplicity and expediency they practice and teach the approved method in the course.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
Bullshit.


I brake in turns and use one finger. (Two on a KLR)
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:24 AM   #51
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If you can't get maximum braking with two fingers, fix your brakes.

If you can't brake hard in a corner, fix your riding.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by high dangler View Post
Glad you are thinking about braking and practicing ..Never ever stop trying to get better. The guys that think they have it all figured out after a few rides are the crashers.
Over 40 years here on all kinds on bikes and Im still learning .

^^^ THIS ^^^ is true
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:22 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
If you can't get maximum braking with two fingers, fix your brakes.

If you can't brake hard in a corner, fix your riding.
Help me with this, when I took my BRC they told me if I braked hard in the corner it would cause my front tire to wash out unless I stood the bike up first.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:42 PM   #54
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I'm really surprised that so many people are so scared in corners that they are covering their front brakes.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:53 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
Help me with this, when I took my BRC they told me if I braked hard in the corner it would cause my front tire to wash out unless I stood the bike up first.
It's not that you can't brake in a corner, of course you can. How you brake is what matters. And we are not talking about trailing your brakes into a corner, braking mid-corner is not something to be approached lightly.We don't teach this to beginners, because it's a fairly advanced technique that requires a lot of feel for what the bike is doing.With only a very small contact patch to start with, all the weight on the front end, and then add in the factor of potentially sudden braking as well, you WILL overwhelm the front tire very quickly and find yourself in the Rhubarb.
Like any other technique, it requires a competent teacher, and practice, and preferably a controlled environment in which to learn it ( a racetrack maybe?) And like everything else on a bike, including braking hard in a straight line, you need to have your head up looking where you want to go. Too often people look down when getting on the brakes really hard. Your eyes tell the bike where to go, looking down is probably not where you want to end up.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by McJamie View Post
It's not that you can't brake in a corner, of course you can. How you brake is what matters. And we are not talking about trailing your brakes into a corner, braking mid-corner is not something to be approached lightly.We don't teach this to beginners, because it's a fairly advanced technique that requires a lot of feel for what the bike is doing.With only a very small contact patch to start with, all the weight on the front end, and then add in the factor of potentially sudden braking as well, you WILL overwhelm the front tire very quickly and find yourself in the Rhubarb.
Like any other technique, it requires a competent teacher, and practice, and preferably a controlled environment in which to learn it ( a racetrack maybe?) And like everything else on a bike, including braking hard in a straight line, you need to have your head up looking where you want to go. Too often people look down when getting on the brakes really hard. Your eyes tell the bike where to go, looking down is probably not where you want to end up.
Exactly and the OP's question was on hard braking and obstacle avoidance. So if you are still hard on the front brake and steer the bike there will be only one result.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
I'm really surprised that so many people are so scared in corners that they are covering their front brakes.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:22 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Pretty much.... There are riders out there at all stages of development. IMHO when a novice asks a basic question then an answer based on advanced braking and cornering techniques may only lead to confusion that would put them at higher risk of crashing on the public road.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:24 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
I'm really surprised that so many people are so scared in corners that they are covering their front brakes.
I never un-cover my levers really, either one of them.

...of course the only time that I've ever crashed due to the front brakes, someone checked up in a corner and hit the front brake for me.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:09 AM   #60
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I never un-cover my levers really, either one of them.

...of course the only time that I've ever crashed due to the front brakes, someone checked up in a corner and hit the front brake for me.
Are you saying that someone reached out and bashed your fingers whilst over the front brakes? This is the way I read it but would like you to clarify exactly what happened.
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