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Old 05-18-2005, 11:13 PM   #61
Loadedagain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Ok, interview over; we'll see...

Now just a little clarification on the proper execution of the use of a torque wrench. This one is a dial wrench so you gotta stop when the needle hits the right spot or you will go over. The bigger one is what they call a "clicker" I believe; and it will let go when the setting is reached?
i'm sleepy right now... i'll write more in the morning.

click torque wrenches are not as accurate as dial ones. they do offer repeatability though. turn til she clicks, then turn no more. loads of folk click twice or more just to make sure. don't do that. you're over torquing yer fastener.

the joy of a dial is you turn til the dial says you've reached torque, and you're there. you can tighten that bolt as many times as you like to that value and it will never turn any more.

in a case like a clamp you could theoretically go back and forth forever to match the load carried by the fasteners (two or more), but really there's no point in making them identical.. not no point.. no real benefit. go back and forth til they are close... no like 25% close... like 2-5%close... shit... you may get freaky lucky and get them both the same, but usually that means your clamp is bottomed and you gots other problems.

prolly the most important thing to consider when torquing a fastener is what you are doing. why are you torquing it?
1- to place a fastener in tension.
2- to place equal load on fasteners
3- to place a given load on a member
etc... etc...

most of the time what you're looking for, unless you want to place a specific tension on a fastener (stretch it inside its elastic limits) is consistency. when you tighten a bunch of 6mm or 8mm bolts... they're all the same. don't matter if its 2 inch lbs, or 20 (i just made those numbers up)... as long as they're the same.

if you want to strech a fastener, like you do on many cylinder head bolts... you want accuracy as well as repeatability... she's gotta be stretched, but you don't wanna break her... and she better be as tight as her seester, or the tighter one is gonna take all the load and do bad things.

.... nighty nighty....
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Old 05-19-2005, 07:31 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
i'm sleepy right now... i'll write more in the morning.

click torque wrenches are not as accurate as dial ones. they do offer repeatability though. turn til she clicks, then turn no more. loads of folk click twice or more just to make sure. don't do that. you're over torquing yer fastener.

the joy of a dial is you turn til the dial says you've reached torque, and you're there. you can tighten that bolt as many times as you like to that value and it will never turn any more.

in a case like a clamp you could theoretically go back and forth forever to match the load carried by the fasteners (two or more), but really there's no point in making them identical.. not no point.. no real benefit. go back and forth til they are close... no like 25% close... like 2-5%close... shit... you may get freaky lucky and get them both the same, but usually that means your clamp is bottomed and you gots other problems.

prolly the most important thing to consider when torquing a fastener is what you are doing. why are you torquing it?
1- to place a fastener in tension.
2- to place equal load on fasteners
3- to place a given load on a member
etc... etc...

most of the time what you're looking for, unless you want to place a specific tension on a fastener (stretch it inside its elastic limits) is consistency. when you tighten a bunch of 6mm or 8mm bolts... they're all the same. don't matter if its 2 inch lbs, or 20 (i just made those numbers up)... as long as they're the same.

if you want to strech a fastener, like you do on many cylinder head bolts... you want accuracy as well as repeatability... she's gotta be stretched, but you don't wanna break her... and she better be as tight as her seester, or the tighter one is gonna take all the load and do bad things.

.... nighty nighty....
daNke schOOn lieBschoon.

more than I asked for but just what I needed...
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Old 05-21-2005, 10:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
i'm sleepy right now... i'll write more in the morning.

click torque wrenches are not as accurate as dial ones. they do offer repeatability though. turn til she clicks, then turn no more. loads of folk click twice or more just to make sure. don't do that. you're over torquing yer fastener.

the joy of a dial is you turn til the dial says you've reached torque, and you're there. you can tighten that bolt as many times as you like to that value and it will never turn any more.

in a case like a clamp you could theoretically go back and forth forever to match the load carried by the fasteners (two or more), but really there's no point in making them identical.. not no point.. no real benefit. go back and forth til they are close... no like 25% close... like 2-5%close... shit... you may get freaky lucky and get them both the same, but usually that means your clamp is bottomed and you gots other problems.

prolly the most important thing to consider when torquing a fastener is what you are doing. why are you torquing it?
1- to place a fastener in tension.
2- to place equal load on fasteners
3- to place a given load on a member
etc... etc...

most of the time what you're looking for, unless you want to place a specific tension on a fastener (stretch it inside its elastic limits) is consistency. when you tighten a bunch of 6mm or 8mm bolts... they're all the same. don't matter if its 2 inch lbs, or 20 (i just made those numbers up)... as long as they're the same.

if you want to strech a fastener, like you do on many cylinder head bolts... you want accuracy as well as repeatability... she's gotta be stretched, but you don't wanna break her... and she better be as tight as her seester, or the tighter one is gonna take all the load and do bad things.

.... nighty nighty....
I'm in the market and your tutorial was very helpful. Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2005, 03:22 AM   #64
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I have a couple of the clicker type, but would like a small (1/4") dial type really for the smaller bolts.
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Old 05-22-2005, 08:25 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckster
I have a couple of the clicker type, but would like a small (1/4") dial type really for the smaller bolts.
CDI's are relatively unknown, yet professional grade. I got mine new for $60 delivered of eBay (MSRP is $160) when folks are paying twice that for a used Snap On...
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Old 06-01-2005, 10:58 AM   #66
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And the 0-75ft.lb 3/8" drive CDI clicker showed up. Under $50 shipped to my door from a slothly eBay seller But it came in the case w/ instructions, traceable cert., and its brand new... New price should be around $150 plus tax and/or shipping.

Now all i need is a few sockets to fit the bike's larger nuts and a 3/8 to 1/4 reduction adapter so I can run some smaller sockets on the in.lb torquer. Maybe a few extensions or a jointed adapter...

Can't imagine why anyone needs to pay double or more for Snap-On or Mac Tools

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Old 06-01-2005, 12:38 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
Can't imagine why anyone needs to pay double or more for Snap-On or Mac Tools
do i need to give a rant as to why people pay double or more for something? why you have a ktm, not a klr?
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Old 06-01-2005, 01:04 PM   #68
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Maybe Meat needs a dial indicator so he can measure all his bolts for stretch?























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Old 06-01-2005, 02:08 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
do i need to give a rant as to why people pay double or more for something? why you have a ktm, not a klr?
recap: CDI makes very good tools, are they as good as Snap-On? Could be...

Are Snap-On 3x as good as CDI? Not likely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by news
SNAP-ON's DIAL-INDICATOR TORQUE WRENCH garnered a gold award for its CDI Torque Products Division in the 2002 Industrial Design Excellence Awards (IDEA) competition. The sleek wrench, featuring soft contours and hi-tech brushed steel, offers users improved function and increased accuracy through its ergonomic design. To say IDEA's jury chair Charles L. Jones is enthused about the Snap-on tool would be award-winning in itself- an award-winning understatement.

"This product is a great example of industrial design at its best. The (Snap-on) design team took a product that has remained largely unchanged for generations and improved its functionality, made it more ecologically friendly and gave it a unique design language that reinforces the brand. I am absolutely smitten with this product!" enthused Jones.

The new torque wrench's housing uses impact-modified polymer to provide strength and ergonomic shape qualities. The internal skeleton is press-formed alloy steel giving the structural integrity and rigidity that is required in a precision measurement instrument.

The 2002 Industrial Design Excellence Awards, the premier awards for industrial design worldwide, are co-sponsored by BusinessWeek and the Industrial Designers Society of America (IDSA). A jury of 16 non-affiliated designers selected gold, silver and bronze awards from nearly 1,300 entries from around the world. Each entry was judged on fulfilling five criteria: design innovation, benefit to the user, benefit to the client/business, ecological responsibility, and appropriate aesthetics and appeal.

"We are proud to be honoured among this elite group of international winners..." said Gary Keefe, the president of Snap-on's CDI Division.
Posted July 17/02
http://www.aaro.ca/May%2023-Aug22-02-NwsBfs.html

viva la revolucion'
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Old 06-01-2005, 02:15 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
Maybe Meat needs a dial indicator so he can measure all his bolts for stretch?

are you volunteering to supply and train me?
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Old 06-01-2005, 02:29 PM   #71
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No train man, we no do trains, only airplanes...............

Meat Snap-On is crazy expenisve at times, I'll give you that. But when you use tools every day to make a living, the money seems very well spent. Most of my work is outdoors in the elements, so my line maintenance bag is full of Crapsman, not a day goes by where i don't cuss at them. Snap-on, Mac, even S&K rock by comparison.
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Old 06-01-2005, 02:41 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
No train man, we no do trains, only airplanes...............

Meat Snap-On is crazy expenisve at times, I'll give you that. But when you use tools every day to make a living, the money seems very well spent. Most of my work is outdoors in the elements, so my line maintenance bag is full of Crapsman, not a day goes by where i don't cuss at them. Snap-on, Mac, even S&K rock by comparison.
know anything about CDI? (subsidiary of Snap-On - see above)

ps - what airplanes? you with Boeing?
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Old 06-01-2005, 03:05 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
know anything about CDI? (subsidiary of Snap-On - see above)

ps - what airplanes? you with Boeing?
Meat, Meat, I go to all that trouble to fill out my profile...........

http://www.monomaniacs.nl/mm/ttt/%20...C4%20reference
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:19 PM   #74
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the comparison of cdi and snap on as being the same product with different costs, when they are distributed by the same company does not hold water.... i've never heard of cdi and am taking word that they are indeed distributed by snap-on. my simplistic brain asks only one question... why would snap-on sell two products at drastically different prices if one was not different from the other.

i will continue to buy and use snap-on for (almost) all my tools because i know they are the best (or on par with the best). time is not chap, and if i ever break a head bolt because a cheap torque wrench isn't calibrated properly... the expensive one isn't that expensive any more. loadedagain economics.

my 2 cents.. others results could vary.
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Old 06-01-2005, 04:26 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loadedagain
the comparison of cdi and snap on as being the same product with different costs, when they are distributed by the same company does not hold water.... i've never heard of cdi and am taking word that they are indeed distributed by snap-on. my simplistic brain asks only one question... why would snap-on sell two products at drastically different prices if one was not different from the other.

i will continue to buy and use snap-on for (almost) all my tools because i know they are the best (or on par with the best). time is not chap, and if i ever break a head bolt because a cheap torque wrench isn't calibrated properly... the expensive one isn't that expensive any more. loadedagain economics.

my 2 cents.. others results could vary.
void where prohibited, not available in all states, use as directed, faint of heart need not apply...

I follow you, but for us mere mortals, i.e. weekend wrenchers, brands like CDI, are probably great. For me Snap-On would be more like a status symbol when I can get what I need for a third of the price. I doubt that their specs would be a fib however and 3% is 3% - pretty good eh?
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