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Old 12-18-2014, 11:18 AM   #1
Prmurat OP
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Sidecar tilt adjustor

Seeing a post on FB I am wondering about the tilt adjustor on a sidecar wheel (I do not have one on any of my SC, so I do not really know their use!). All I've seen are compressing the shock absorber and thus the sidecar suspension i.e. comfort and reduce the wheel movement. Why not having a shock mounting like single Velocette had in the 60'/70'?? Maybe they will even be a way to have this push and pulled by a servo motor?

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Old 12-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #2
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What compressing the shock ?! All the adjuster does is alter the height location of one of the connection points for the shock.

Shock travel and pre-load remain unaltered. Seriously, look at all the pic's that have been posted, it's obvious.

All the Velo' is doing is altering the angle of the shock, thus it will alter the stiffness of the shock because you have altered the mechanical advantage. Again, obvious. And in the case of the Velo', ride height remains unaffected.


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Old 12-18-2014, 12:55 PM   #3
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Usually the tilt adjuster is used to compensate for load, road and weather conditions as a trim device. Some times they are manual such that you have to get off and make the adjustments. The ones we make are electric and can be done while riding.
When ever you set up a sidecar bike you can set it up not to pull one way or the other but only on an average road, speed and load any thing out of the range it was set for will have a pull. So if the rig is set up for an empty sidecar, add a passenger and their weight will compress the sidecars suspension and as such will cause the bike to lean to the right (on right hand mounted sidecars) and as such will cause a pull to the right. With the trim you can adjust this back to neutral. Different speeds, road crown and even wind conditions you may find that the ability to trim on the fly will lower your fatigue after a long day in the saddle.
The way we do it is to raise or lower the upper shock mount on the sidecar. We do this with a rocker arm attached to a liner actuator.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydmc View Post
The way we do it is to raise or lower the upper shock mount on the sidecar. We do this with a rocker arm attached to a liner actuator.
Jay G
DMC sidecars
www.dmcsidecars.com
866-638-1793
I do essentially the same by having a slotted end on my sidecar's mono-shock and using a linear actuator to push an advantaged lever connected to it.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR700 View Post
What compressing the shock ?! All the adjuster does is alter the height location of one of the connection points for the shock.

Shock travel and pre-load remain unaltered. Seriously, look at all the pic's that have been posted, it's obvious.

All the Velo' is doing is altering the angle of the shock, thus it will alter the stiffness of the shock because you have altered the mechanical advantage. Again, obvious. And in the case of the Velo', ride height remains unaffected.


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What is not compressing the shock? Less obvious ?

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Old 12-18-2014, 03:48 PM   #6
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There are 2 pivot points.

I know you think its compressing the shock, but it is really moving the entire assembly up & down.
As the adjuster pushes up, both the upper shock mount arm and lower swing arm rotate and both are moved down.

The shock is still only being compressed by the weight of the chassis
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Old 12-18-2014, 04:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prmurat View Post
What is not compressing the shock? Less obvious ?

Claude that modular mounting plate is cool !
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:21 PM   #8
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Actually the vellocete system will act more to alter the effective spring rate due to changing the shock angle than a typical tilt adjustor would.Laying the shock down will make it seem softer.

With that being said shock angle is an important things. I have seen and heard of many shock failures on sidecars and from what I have observed a lot of I tis due to shocks being mounted on bad angles. In a perfect world if we could take all side loads off of the shock's shaft anf have it go straight in and out of the shock body we would be in great shape. Some never consider this from what I have seen, We recently replaced a Progressive shock that had been run over 60000 miles in three continents on one of our sidecars. All kinds of abuse and it was still on decent shape. We replaced it just in case but it was still doing well.

BTW I did not mention it on our facebook page but we can do an electric system as well but seldom do.

The Hannigan sidecars we do almost all have an electric actuator and it works very well.

With our adventure bike based outfits (and some others too) we run and antiswaybar which is somewhat of a self compensating device for various loads. This along with proper shocks takes away much of the need for constantly adjusting the tilt. The manual adjustment is a simply system that is effective and will not let you down due to an electrical issue when you are in the middle of next to no where across the tracks while it is raining and getting dark with bandits coming out to play. LOL.
Lots of ways to look at things and all can be good.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:25 PM   #9
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Claude that modular mounting plate is cool !
Thanks DB. We wen tto that a while back. It is CNC machined and seems to work quite well. The various holes down on the bottom portion allow different swingarm pivot locations for ride height variations in different applications. We spaced them in such a way that there can actualy be more than one swingarm pivot axle installed and everything still clears and works okay.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre_fl View Post
There are 2 pivot points.

I know you think its compressing the shock, but it is really moving the entire assembly up & down.
As the adjuster pushes up, both the upper shock mount arm and lower swing arm rotate and both are moved down.

The shock is still only being compressed by the weight of the chassis
Agree...it only is moving the shock mount location in relation to the frame
.
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:52 PM   #11
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Understood now.
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Old 12-19-2014, 02:10 PM   #12
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That is how I made the shock on my leaner adjustable:


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Old 12-19-2014, 03:40 PM   #13
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That changes the leverage of the swing arm to the shock, but does not change the height, right?

More upright gives a softer ride, more leaned over/layed down firmer one?
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre_fl View Post
That changes the leverage of the swing arm to the shock, but does not change the height, right?

More upright gives a softer ride, more leaned over/layed down firmer one?
I think the leverage works the other way, upright firm. As Claude said in post #8.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre_fl View Post
That changes the leverage of the swing arm to the shock, but does not change the height, right?
Changing the leverage certainly does change the height since decreased leverage would require more pressure from the spring (either a stronger or shorter spring) to maintain height. But where I push a slotted end on the shock, I change height without changing the load on the spring other than whatever minuscule center-of-gravity change there might be for the overall rig.
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