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Old 06-01-2012, 08:41 AM   #1
crypto666 OP
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Built a new wheel, but is it correct???

I have relaced a few wheels now and never had a problem with any of them, even those little pain in the ass wheels on the mini bikes. However, when I got done with my new Excel rear wheel and spokes last night, something didn't look right.

The offset is right and everything is as true as I can expect, but look at those spokes. They all have a slight bend in them. Is this normal? I would think not, but I cannot for the life of me see what could be wrong. That slight bend in the spokes has got to weaken it and possibly add some mushyness.

This is a stock xr650r hub, with Excel rim and spokes and spline drive nipples. I thought maybe I laced to the worng holes, but when I looked at it this morning it doesn't seem to be the case.

BTW, I do a lot of work in the dark.

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Old 06-01-2012, 09:20 AM   #2
High Country Herb
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The seats for the nipples may be facing the wrong angle. The Excel rim you have might be meant for a smaller diameter hub. Are you sure you received the right rim?

When I had Buchanan Spoke and Rim (in Azuza, CA) lace an 18" hoop onto my Honda's stock front hub, they had to re-grind the nipple seats to work correctly. If you have the right rim and it still isn't working, this may be your answer.

If you don't get a difinitive answer here, I would suggest you contact Buchanan, and email them that picture.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:01 AM   #3
crypto666 OP
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Thanks Herb.
I am pretty sure it is the right rim, but I double check tonight. I know the spokes are correct.

I have been doing some reading and it appears that I may have missed a step. When using new spokes, especially aftermarket, they require some slight bending at the hub to get straigtened out. The reference also stated that they will straighten out on their own over time, but will also lose tension.

So it should be an easy fix. I just need to loosen them up, apply a slight bend, and re-tension.

Just as long as I don't have to pull the tire again. I hate changing tires.

Edit: I may be wrong again. My bending may be different than the bending shown below. At any rate, it's loosen and retighten and hopefully they straighten out.

Here is my ref: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

"At this stage, the spokes will not be running straight, but will be noticeably curved where they leave the hub. The leading spokes, in particular, will be swooping outward as they leave the hub, then gradually curving back toward the rim. Before you start applying tension to the spokes, you should bend them by hand so that they fit snugly against the sides of the hub flanges. This can be done easily by pressing on each spoke in turn with your thumb about an inch out from the hub. If you don't do this, the spokes will still be slightly curved when the wheel is finished. These curves will gradually straighten themselves out over the first few hundred miles on the road, and the wheel will lose tension and go out of true"
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:41 AM   #4
markk53
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From what the picture shows, the spoke hole angles at the rim is wrong as it is laced. No amount of hammering or waiting for the spokes to seat in will help. But there is an easy free out on this...

Honest truth - you put the rim on the wrong way. You have the smaller flange drilled side of the rim laced to the large flange and vice versa. Look at the picture and you will notice one side the spokes are bowing out at the rim and the other side spokes are bowing in.

Good news first - your rim appears to be the right one and nothing need be drilled, hammered or ground.

Bad news - you need to unlace the hub, flop the rim around, and relace it with the proper spoke angles for the flanges.

Sorry, but still not all bad.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:00 AM   #5
crypto666 OP
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Awesome, thanks Mark.

It kept me up all night, and then I thought I had read somewhere that excell drills their holes to be specific angle for each group, and I thought I had mixed that up, but when I looked at it briefly this morning I could not see the error. It is also why I have never had this problem with stock rims.


Oh well, practice makes perfect. Another good reason to leave work early.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:12 AM   #6
mcma111
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You have it laced correctly. What you do have is the nipples are to big in diameter and the holes in the rim are not allowing the nipple set to the correct angle. I bought a bunch Buchanan spokes and build a lot of wheels. One time I told them the wrong nipple diameter (they always ask what you want). I ended up drilling the rim holes to the next size up. If you look at the Buchanan web site there are at least four to five nipple diameters available depending on spoke gauge.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:25 AM   #7
crypto666 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcma111 View Post
You have it laced correctly. What you do have is the nipples are to big in diameter and the holes in the rim are not allowing the nipple set to the correct angle. I bought a bunch Buchanan spokes and build a lot of wheels. One time I told them the wrong nipple diameter (they always ask what you want). I ended up drilling the rim holes to the next size up. If you look at the Buchanan web site there are at least four to five nipple diameters available depending on spoke gauge.
I don't know about that mcma, btw I really enjoyed your engine thread. Those are the excell spokes and nipples (spline drive), specific to the xr and excel rim. Even said so on the box, otherwise I would be agreeing with you.

I guess if I tear it down, flip it, and it is still screwed up I owe you a beer.

What I need is to replace the batteries in my head lamp; I should have notice this before I put the god damn tire on and balanced it. Blind or stupid, the outcome is the same.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
I have relaced a few wheels now and never had a problem with any of them, even those little pain in the ass wheels on the mini bikes. However, when I got done with my new Excel rear wheel and spokes last night, something didn't look right.

The offset is right and everything is as true as I can expect, but look at those spokes. They all have a slight bend in them. Is this normal? I would think not, but I cannot for the life of me see what could be wrong. That slight bend in the spokes has got to weaken it and possibly add some mushyness.

This is a stock xr650r hub, with Excel rim and spokes and spline drive nipples. I thought maybe I laced to the worng holes, but when I looked at it this morning it doesn't seem to be the case.

BTW, I do a lot of work in the dark.

can you show the whole rim? it looks like the pattern might be off by looking at the ones in the pic but not for sure.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:53 AM   #9
larryboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post


Bad news - you need to unlace the hub, flop the rim around, and relace it with the proper spoke angles for the flanges.

That's how I see it too.
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Old 06-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #10
dentvet
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if the wheels are directional, isn;t there an arrow stamped on it somewhere?

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785921
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:11 PM   #11
crypto666 OP
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I didn't see an arrow, I didn't read the fine print either.

Flipped it, everything is perfect, trued much better as well. The daylight helped a bunch, but still managed to bloody my nose taking the tire off.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #12
crypto666 OP
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I didn't see an arrow, I didn't read the fine print either, in fact I didn't see a damn thing.

Flipped it, everything is perfect, trued much better as well. Runout is +-.01" in both axis. The daylight helped a bunch, but still managed to bloody my nose taking the tire off.

Thanks to all.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:45 PM   #13
kubiak
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glad you got it all done!
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:41 PM   #14
brad21
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Any follow-up on this? Is the wheel holding together okay? I have the same problem with my XR wheel...
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