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Old 06-09-2012, 09:56 PM   #61
itsatdm
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The only advantage to being old, is I not only remember those times, I lived them. Life was fairly simple, dirt bikes meant racing, Enduros were licensed for the street and mostly 250cc. A Honda CB750 was a big street bike.

My first was a 1968 Yamaha 250cc, 2 stroke, with all of 18 hp. Spindly forks with drum brakes and we all thought it state of the art. The mountains haven't changed, but the equipment and riders certainly have.

Now we need a special class of motorcycle to ride certain types of terrain and the people that buy and sell will argue endlessly over the merits of each to determine which is best.

The TDM that I rode up Silver Canyon may look stock but it was not. The suspension was aftermarket. The front tire is actually the tallest rear tire I could find. Just like most of us do with our bikes, I modified it.

That canyon was not that difficult, it was the ones in Colorado a few days later, where the rocks were bigger that made me upgrade to something with more travel and ground clearance.

To the OP, the F650gs is better than that TDM. 1" more travel and ground clearance. It is lighter. A 19" wheel with some real rubber choices and fuel injected, something that kept from from doing Cork Screw pass. So yes, I think it is a good choice.

With proper mods and you getting the experience, you don't need a licensed race bike to have a good time.

Petzi-baer, this is the best comparison between the 800xc and F800gs. It is from Motorcycle Consumer News, a magazine that does not depend on advertising to survive. http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2011AugTriBMW.pdf

More stats than you can shake a stick at and read Scott Roussenau's evaluation. Which is best depends on what you are looking for.
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itsatdm screwed with this post 06-09-2012 at 11:10 PM
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:40 PM   #62
petzi-baer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
The only advantage to being old, is I not only remember those times, I lived them. Life was fairly simple, dirt bikes meant racing, dual sport were licensed for the street and mostly 250cc. A Honda CB750 was a big street bike.

My first was a 1968 Yamaha 250cc, 2 stroke, with all of 18 hp. Spindly forks with drum brakes and we all thought it state of the art. The mountains haven't changed, but the equipment and riders certainly have.

Now we need a special class of motorcycle to ride certain types of terrain and the people that buy and sell will argue endlessly over the merits of each to determine which is best.

The TDM that I rode up Silver Canyon may look stock but it was not. The suspension was aftermarket. The front tire is actually the tallest rear tire I could find. Just like most of us do with our bikes, I modified it.

That pass was not that difficult, it was the ones in Colorado a few days later, where the rocks were bigger that made me upgrade to something with more travel and ground clearance.

To the OP, the F650gs is better than that TDM. 1" more travel and ground clearance. It is lighter. A 19" wheel with some real rubber choices and fuel injected, something that kept from from doing Cork Screw pass. So yes, I think it is a good choice.

With proper mods and you getting the experience, you don't need a licensed race bike to have a good time.

Petzi-baer, this is the best comparison between the 800xc and F800gs. It is from Motorcycle Consumer News, a magazine that does not depend on advertising to survive. http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2011AugTriBMW.pdf

More stats than you can shake a stick at and read Scott Roussenau's evaluation. Which is best depends on what you are looking for.
Bookmarked - thank you. Right now I am leaning more to the BMW. Or wait and see what BMW will do in 2013.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:36 PM   #63
itsatdm
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Besides all the statical data, the reason I think these testers actually did a thorough test, is the mention of the low speed abrupt throttle. Street riders do not notice it, casual dirt riders do not notice it and most of the press testers never talk about it.

The riders that ride dirt rough enough to slowly maneuver around obstacles, certainly notice it.

The cure is simple and relative inexpensive.
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Old 06-10-2012, 04:22 AM   #64
Snowy
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Ahhh, the good old days...



My first dirt bike was a new one of these.

Compared to the suspension on it, I think ANYTHING with 2 wheels these days could be a "dirt bike" by direct comparison.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:52 AM   #65
Jon_PDX
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Since we are talking about the past.

For those that have not seen.....

The original adventure riders (and bikes!)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29723

It's worth looking at.

Enjoy,

Jon...
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:03 AM   #66
Jon_PDX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
.....Petzi-baer, this is the best comparison between the 800xc and F800gs. It is from Motorcycle Consumer News, a magazine that does not depend on advertising to survive. http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2011AugTriBMW.pdf

More stats than you can shake a stick at and read Scott Roussenau's evaluation. Which is best depends on what you are looking for.
Good review of the two bikes......thanks for sharing it.

Jon...
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:58 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_PDX View Post
Since we are talking about the past.

For those that have not seen.....

The original adventure riders (and bikes!)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29723

It's worth looking at.

Enjoy,

Jon...
Classic, classic, classic photos. None better.

We sure are spoiled in this modern era...

Thanks Jon, I had not seen.
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Sounds dangerous.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:04 PM   #68
grndzr0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_PDX View Post
Since we are talking about the past.

For those that have not seen.....

The original adventure riders (and bikes!)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29723

It's worth looking at.

Enjoy,

Jon...
Hats off!!

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Old 06-11-2012, 07:32 AM   #69
DW99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Besides all the statical data, the reason I think these testers actually did a thorough test, is the mention of the low speed abrupt throttle. Street riders do not notice it, casual dirt riders do not notice it and most of the press testers never talk about it.

The riders that ride dirt rough enough to slowly maneuver around obstacles, certainly notice it.

The cure is simple and relative inexpensive.

and what is the cure??
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #70
itsatdm
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The problem is a very lean off idle AFR on the F800gs. One of the reasons we have fuel injection is to meet emission standards. FI is much better at it. Combined with an ECU and oxygen sensor, it can make adjustments to provide both best emissions through complete burning of the fuel and acceptable power. An AF ratio of 14.7 parts air to fuel has been determined to be that for gasoline.

The BMW will run in closed loop, using the predesignated map of 14.7, or open loop, using sensors to determine if other mapping is desired to meet certain conditions. The throttle position sensor will initiate the choice of loops and the oxygen sensor will detect when the exhaust gases are near Stoich (14.7) and revert back to closed loop.

A gas engine will run on a wide range of AF ratio's. Depending on engine design, they generally make more power and emissions with a richer mixture.

From what I saw on a posted dyno the AF ratio at warm idle for this engine is 17 to 1. It does not get into the richer mixtures until 2,200 rpms. If you attempt to ride in that range you get abrupt throttle, as the bike is ranging from 1 mixture to the other. The richest mixture from the stock mapping under full throttle, was 14.4 AFR, so I would say it is designed to run lean. The reasons are, an overly rich mixture prevents the catalytic converter from working efficiently and could clog the oxygen sensor.

I have an accelerator module. A resister that makes the Air temp sensor, send a reading to the ECU which causes it to richen the mixture more than normal, when in open loop. 6% according to some of the makers. My experience has been, not enough to cause any damage.

I also have a G2 throttle tube. An eccentric throttle cable spool that requires more movement of the hand throttle to initiate movement of the throttle body, at least in the first half of the turn.

Look in stickies and you will be referred to other possible solutions
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itsatdm screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 11:44 AM
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:00 AM   #71
toowheels
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A few pics from the weekend:

We all made it through this (both ways) and neither of the F8's needed any assistance or fell over. It was about 20ft. long and had a bit of a drop at the far side.









Short video clip of one of the Husky's goin through:
http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=MVI_7622.mp4

Just shows they CAN be capable but it helps if:
You have good tires (lucky for me a new rear Mitas E-09), good (or at least sort of) technique, some confidence, a little luck and friends to help if you fall over

That's just one example of what we encounter. More than a few on here have ridden worse than this.

I also use HTCA's Power Controller which I find helps a lot. This is also not my first bike and I have over 10 years of riding experience on these kinds of bikes. I certainly didn't start with this though!

Just ride your bike, get familiar with it, get some protection, ride with some buddies, take a course and HAVE FUN with it. Do whatever you feel comfortable with in the long run.

Dave
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toowheels screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 11:47 AM
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:33 PM   #72
petzi-baer
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Marketing Dept.

Not gonna do any of that ever:

http://shelf3d.com/btRvVLA0KzM

was just surprised how easily he picked it up at the end ....


petzi-baer
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:52 PM   #73
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toowheels View Post
A few pics from the weekend:

We all made it through this (both ways) and neither of the F8's needed any assistance or fell over. It was about 20ft. long and had a bit of a drop at the far side.









Short video clip of one of the Husky's goin through:
http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=MVI_7622.mp4

Just shows they CAN be capable but it helps if:
You have good tires (lucky for me a new rear Mitas E-09), good (or at least sort of) technique, some confidence, a little luck and friends to help if you fall over

That's just one example of what we encounter. More than a few on here have ridden worse than this.

I also use HTCA's Power Controller which I find helps a lot. This is also not my first bike and I have over 10 years of riding experience on these kinds of bikes. I certainly didn't start with this though!

Just ride your bike, get familiar with it, get some protection, ride with some buddies, take a course and HAVE FUN with it. Do whatever you feel comfortable with in the long run.

Dave
You can hear the FCR whistle all the way through.... nice...
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:10 AM   #74
Jon_PDX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petzi-baer View Post
Not gonna do any of that ever:

http://shelf3d.com/btRvVLA0KzM

was just surprised how easily he picked it up at the end ....

petzi-baer
If I ever see that guy he will never get the keys to my bike

It was impressive though.

Jon...
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:46 AM   #75
VikB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petzi-baer View Post
Not gonna do any of that ever:

http://shelf3d.com/btRvVLA0KzM

was just surprised how easily he picked it up at the end ....


petzi-baer
I love how he says the TT boxes held up just fine and rides away with one destroyed and the other looking beat up...
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