did front brakes change from 74 to 75 in any way?

[mpilot]

Where can one find the information on how to properly set up the ATE calipers?

[Voltaire]

I agree with you two. I race an R90 and bought a Brembo front end with brakes because I was under the impression the ATEs were rubbish.
I rebuilt the dual 40mm ATE's, had a second leg modified to take the scond, 13mm M/C, cast iron discs, stainless lines and new pads.
I really like them and they work well, to the extent I passed on the Brembos to an inmate.

Brembos are of course better as you would expect but that does not mean the earlier ones are no good.

I rode an R75/5 with a sidecar around Europe in the early 90's with drum brakes and the sidecar one disconnected....worked fine....thankfully there was no internet at the time as the frame was apparently not up to a sidecar....

So can we put the tiresome rubbishing of ATE's to bed as its getting boring.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Wirespokes

Ok, so you don't hate them.

But with all the reasons given why they don't work worth a damn it sure gives that impression.

And I won't argue that newer calipers are a better design.

Logic aside, the swinging, one-piston ATE calipers can be made to work very well and comparable to the two-piston Brembos.

Those who have the earlier ATEs and want improved brakes (and don't know they can work well) are getting the wrong idea that their systems are archaic crap that never worked well and should be scrapped immediately.

That's BS, and I want them to know that.

But your point of view is based on you knowing my feelings and putting words in my mouth. I have never said they don't work worth a damn. I have said that they have inherent design flaws that severely limit their performance. Sure, they work real well for all their problems but if you want decent brakes in the eighties era sense versus the seventies, it is going to be easier to start with a better design IMO. If you are happy with improved brakes in the seventies era sense, yes, you can get them working better than stock. Scrapped? It all depends on your expectations. If you have post seventies expectations, scrap them because, logic or not, they are not comparable to Brembo's in form or function.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Voltaire

I agree with you two. I race an R90 and bought a Brembo front end with brakes because I was under the impression the ATEs were rubbish.
I rebuilt the dual 40mm ATE's, had a second leg modified to take the scond, 13mm M/C, cast iron discs, stainless lines and new pads.
I really like them and they work well, to the extent I passed on the Brembos to an inmate.

Brembos are of course better as you would expect but that does not mean the earlier ones are no good.

I rode an R75/5 with a sidecar around Europe in the early 90's with drum brakes and the sidecar one disconnected....worked fine....thankfully there was no internet at the time as the frame was apparently not up to a sidecar....

So can we put the tiresome rubbishing of ATE's to bed as its getting boring.

I have NEVER said they are no good. I have said that they are not as good as Brembo's in form and function. Racing or not, it sounds to me like you three guys don't get into the brakes much for protocol and whatnot? That's fine and dandy but don't go off with a bunch of BS about how ATE's are as good as Brembo's. Or, for that matter, what I think or how I don't know how to adjust ATE's. I think I know how to adjust ATE's better than most and I know that I can use them better than most. Sure, they are fine as long as you don't expect more than they can deliver. If you do, you need better brakes.

Rubbish? It's you guys that are putting me into the position of defending myself against what I am told I feel and think and accusations that if ATE's don't work well you don't know how to adjust them. That is hilarious! Take your blinders off!

I am glad they work good for you Voltaire. I NEVER said they don't unless you want to compare them to better brakes but it sounds like you guys don't need better brakes. Good for you. Now get off the rest of our backs and let's discuss braking.

[Voltaire]

Originally Posted by supershaft

I have NEVER said they are no good. I have said that they are not as good as Brembo's in form and function. Racing or not, it sounds to me like you three guys don't get into the brakes much for protocol and whatnot? That's fine and dandy but don't go off with a bunch of BS about how ATE's are as good as Brembo's. Or, for that matter, what I think or how I don't know how to adjust ATE's. I think I know how to adjust ATE's better than most and I know that I can use them better than most. Sure, they are fine as long as you don't expect more than they can deliver. If you do, you need better brakes.

Rubbish? It's you guys that are putting me into the position of defending myself against what I am told I feel and think and accusations that if ATE's don't work well you don't know how to adjust them. That is hilarious! Take your blinders off!

I am glad they work good for you Voltaire. I NEVER said they don't unless you want to compare them to better brakes but it sounds like you guys don't need better brakes. Good for you. Now get off the rest of our backs and let's discuss braking.

No one is saying that ATE's are as good as Brembos, but there is nothing wrong with them, they are just part of the Disc brake evolution that as you say was a dead end.....like air cooling was in cars.
If you want better brakes buy a bike with better brakes, the pre 81's are what they are, but can be improved on.
I have a Commando and the Lockheed on that is really average...but would I fit an Brembo or aftermarket floating disc and 4 pot calipers that are available for them......no because that is not what classic bikes are about to me.
I'm guessing you have never ridden a bike with sorted ATE's, if your ever in NZ I'll organize you a day at Pukekohe with its mile back straight leading into a 2nd gear hairpin and you can have a go.....surprises quite a few modern bike riders....

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by mpilot

Where can one find the information on how to properly set up the ATE calipers?

Surely there are some articles out there if you google it? Setting them up is a compromise. I go for the center of the rotor AMAP.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Voltaire

No one is saying that ATE's are as good as Brembos, but there is nothing wrong with them, they are just part of the Disc brake evolution that as you say was a dead end.....like air cooling was in cars.
If you want better brakes buy a bike with better brakes, the pre 81's are what they are, but can be improved on.
I have a Commando and the Lockheed on that is really average...but would I fit an Brembo or aftermarket floating disc and 4 pot calipers that are available for them......no because that is not what classic bikes are about to me.
I'm guessing you have never ridden a bike with sorted ATE's, if your ever in NZ I'll organize you a day at Pukekohe with its mile back straight leading into a 2nd gear hairpin and you can have a go.....surprises quite a few modern bike riders....

Voltaire? I am a professional, factory trained BMW motorcycle mechanic with decades of experience. I started riding airheads in '75 when when they all had ATE's. I have ridden a LOT of airheads with well sorted ATE's whether I set them up or others did.

2nd gear with a standard tranny? It would probably be a first gear turn with my close ratio gearset? Which, by the way, I think really helps hard braking for the gears being closer together while you are downshifting. Less chance of wheel hop and chatter while you are going down through the gears. I had done literally hundreds of race track laps by the time I was in sixth grade. TT and MX but still. I know about late braking.

No one is saying? Wirespokes is this time. You did last time. If no one is saying? Why are you guys going on about RoS and I talking about the obvious? Let us get on with it.

[DoktorT]

Originally Posted by mpilot

Where can one find the information on how to properly set up the ATE calipers?

At any AirheadsBeemerClub gathering. See the ABC site and find the AirMarschal for your region. Events happening all summer, and likely winter in LA.

[DoktorT]

Originally Posted by supershaft

Voltaire? I am a professional, factory trained BMW motorcycle mechanic with decades of experience.

References from your supervisors is in order. I'd be interested in their opinion of your skills.

[Voltaire]

Originally Posted by supershaft

Surely there are some articles out there if you google it? Setting them up is a compromise. I go for the center of the rotor AMAP.

Why Google it when we have an expert in da house?...Google will only send you back here...

Voltaire? I am a professional, factory trained BMW motorcycle mechanic with decades of experience. I started riding airheads in '75 when when they all had ATE's. I have ridden a LOT of airheads with well sorted ATE's whether I set them up or others did. ]

Surely you could write the man a procedure?

[mpilot]

Where can one find the information on how to properly set up the ATE calipers?

[supershaft]

1977 BMW R80/7 part 5 ATE brakes. Keep in mind my earlier advice.

[Wirespokes]

I've looked for a reference on adjusting the ATEs, but didn't find anything right off. So I'll say a few words about them.

The manual says to draw lines across the disc with a magic marker, apply the brake and see where the lines got swiped. Adjust again, apply the brake, etc etc etc.

Not very workable. At least I couldn't get anywhere with that method.

First off, you do know the caliper is attached to the slider by way of a cam-action axle? Remove the large cap nut underneath the 'wing' and you'll find the axle - it's got a threaded hole in the center with slots on each side. Twist this axle and you'll see the caliper move about.

First off, it can be made to work in two places on the disc - the outer edge or the inner. You want the outer since there's more leverage there.

While holding the brake lever, gently squeeze while turning the caliper axle. If the pad isn't sitting flat against the disc, you'll feel it. Adjust to the point where it's equally hard turning the axle clockwise or counter clockwise.

That's about all there is to adjusting the ATEs.

Thanks SuperShaft for clearing this up and letting us know you don't consider the ATEs crap. I must have read you wrong before.

[supershaft]

Funny. When I googled it I had tons of sites show up including the one a suggested he look at.

IMO, the more worn the pads are the more iffy the adjustment becomes. IMO, your method Ws gets you in the ball park. Using magic marker on the inside of the rotors lets you know just where you are at. I agree with you about favoring the outside or the rotor. I shoot for the middle but always favor the outside. You very often have to guesstimate your position for the pads not coming close to touching the whole rotor. If you are getting down to fine hairs, there is rarely a solid answer as to where to leave the pivot. It's a convoluted design. But they can work decently by '70's standards!

If you get what you report me thinking and feeling from reading my posts without conscientiously adding lib, yes you are reading them wrong. It might help sticking with the words I use? But why even go there? If all us wasted forum space second guessing feelings and what inmates are thinking this forum would be pure crap versus occasionally dragged through it.

[crazydrummerdude]

Dag nabbit.. Did I log onto the supershaft forums again?