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Old 06-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #16
atomicalex
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Originally Posted by ibafran View Post
Lots of truth
Read ibafran's post. It covers it all. And yes, if you are running 15psi on knobbies, an Econoline with a good driver and a CG-Lock could outrun you in the curves.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #17
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Also, cars are typically more forgiving when they break traction in the corner.
I've never timed myself on particular stretches of twisty road around here, but I'm sure I would tend to be more likely to push my Golf faster in some corners although the bikes would destroy it in between the corners. If I were feeling really "on" that day, it might be possible to push the bikes through the corner faster but no matter what it's sure a hell of a lot easier in a car.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
...someone who demands perfection from others, should first seek it in himself.

I'm not too proud to admit, I'm not perfect and have very bad grammar/spelling. (it's a rare exception such as this that I point out anothers mistake, for obvious reasons)
Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:08 AM   #19
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Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

I always just blame it on my ancient keyboard or not enough coffee.

F.W.I.W. Back in 93 I had a Suzuki Swift GT that weighed next to nothing, made 100 H.P. and had sticky tires with a 49/51 weight ration...but what a little screamer it was through the turns. Very easy to outdo anything I could do on a bike on any tight twisty road, in that car. (magazines called it "The killer Flea")
I can't even begin to tell you guys how much fun 4-wheel drifting was in that car and it was great fun embarrassing all of the muscle cars of that era. (until the road straightened out)

rivercreep screwed with this post 06-11-2012 at 03:14 AM
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
I always just blame it on my ancient keyboard or not enough coffee.

F.W.I.W. Back in 93 I had a Suzuki Swift GT that weighed next to nothing, made 100 H.P. and had sticky tires with a 49/51 weight ration...but what a little screamer it was through the turns. Very easy to outdo anything I could do on a bike on any tight twisty road, in that car. (magazines called it "The killer Flea")
I can't even begin to tell you guys how much fun 4-wheel drifting was in that car and it was great fun embarrassing all of the muscle cars of that era. (until the road straightened out)

Small, lightweight cars with moderate power are HUGE fun. Hence the Miata I've owned for over seven years. There is no doubt I drive that car through the twisties considerably faster than I ride either of my motorcycles through 'em. Better safety cage (literally), four tires on the ground and a very low CG all contribute to that.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:39 AM   #21
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Hell! Even my old 98 Dakota RWD truck scooted around the corners nicely. When you have a 5spd and only a 3.9 V6 in a fairly heavy truck...you learn how to make the most of that too! (always loved kicking the tail out!)
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:46 AM   #22
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From the above scenario, we can conclude that most cagers do not care to run at higher g-loads as it spills their coffees and makes for an uncomfortable ride what with complaints from passengers and barfing little kids. So it doesn't surprise me that the occasional solo cager might easily take an x-way ramp at a safe for a cage high g-load and stay out in front of a very good bike which is approaching its limits while being ridden by someone who is not on his game at the moment for a long list of reasons.
Yup; anytime I start to press on in the car on twisty west Welsh B roads my wife puts an end to the fun very quickly. And there's no doubt you need to be on your game to go intentionally close to the limit on a moto. Even more so in the wet.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #23
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by LuciferMutt View Post
Small, lightweight cars with moderate power are HUGE fun.
59hp Rabbit Convertible... jus' sayin'.....
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:45 AM   #25
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I could keep up with all you asshats in my 84 Chevy pickup. no smiley inserted here.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:55 AM   #26
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Is that supposed to be a high number???

Cuz it's not...
It's pretty good for stock tires and a damn sight better than most people expect in a fiat.


Hell, a BMW M3 is .96 - good luck keeping up with that on an on-ramp. Remember that bikes don't make downforce, and if you exceed the traction limit in a bike on an onramp you're fucked rather than just some correctable understeer in a car like the fiat. Some tuned cars can corner at greater than 1 g, and not very many bikes (if any) can.

I see cars swerve and corner hard all the time in ways I wouldn't do on my bike because one mistake means a catastrophic crash, where that usually isn't the case in a cage.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:33 AM   #27
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It's pretty good for stock tires and a damn sight better than most people expect in a fiat.

.
Isn't the figure you quoted for the regular 500 sport? Pretty sure the Abarth does even better.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LuciferMutt View Post
Isn't the figure you quoted for the regular 500 sport? Pretty sure the Abarth does even better.
Could be, was pretty hard to find skidpad numbers.

The line between .87 and .96 isn't that big - hell, there are minivans that will pull .78


Hmm, Guess not: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/dr...iat-500-abarth

Anyway, my point was that even for those that own bikes capable of approaching 1g (lets say .98 G's), they probably don't ride them at the absolute edge of traction because of the consequences for anything unexpected. Someone in a zippy little fiat or mini cooper can take it right to the edge, experience a little understeer, and then tuck it back in again. There aren't a lot of skidpad numbers for bikes, unfortunately, but I'd not be surprised if a great many failed to have high numbers.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:05 PM   #29
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I always make better time on my bike because of exit acceleration, but I'll never overcook an entrance on my bike, and usually end up undercooking them quite a bit.

On my Mazdaspeed 3, I can overcook corners all I want. All it means is the back end slides out a bit and I can power through. Not so much on the bike.

Also with the Dynamic Stability Control (or whatever the manufacturer calls their traction control/braking assist electronic gizmos) you can be going as fast as you want, turn the wheel as hard as you want, and the car will do the rest. Albeit at below capacity if you are a good driver, but if you aren't then it makes you look like a near-wizard.
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Old 06-18-2012, 01:20 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by lethe View Post
Also, cars are typically more forgiving when they break traction in the corner.
I've never timed myself on particular stretches of twisty road around here, but I'm sure I would tend to be more likely to push my Golf faster in some corners although the bikes would destroy it in between the corners. If I were feeling really "on" that day, it might be possible to push the bikes through the corner faster but no matter what it's sure a hell of a lot easier in a car.
I live on a wonderfully twisty road in NorCal and, since I'm familiar with the turns, and can scoot right along in my car. But my same familiarity with the blind turns, driveways and hillsides where gravel lurks and the poor Sonoma County paving all add up to me going slower on my bike than in the car. I'm always aware of the penalty for pushing too hard in those dangerous sections.

Sadly, cagers aren't shy about getting right up on my tail, no doubt wondering why the dork on the fast-looking silver bike isn't going fast. I pull over where it's safe to do so but when it isn't I go at my pace through the dangerous sections and then "create some space" when I can.
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