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Old 06-13-2012, 12:59 PM   #46
tedder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
What is a safe psi to set for tubeless tires? I took 10 psi out on my first foray down a dirt road the other day. So I was at 24 front and 28 rear. (And I felt the difference.)
Could I have gone further?
you can go to 15psi easily. Maybe even 10psi.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Alleycatdad View Post
It's much, much harder to control the bike in loose stuff and with weird weight transfer riding as slowly as you can than it is with some speed on 'er.

Steve
Truth, along with everything else you said.

I find going "fast" on the loose stuff feels better and wears me out a lot less. Every time I slow down to sight-see on loose stuff the bike wants to jump, buck and lunge all over the place. Every little rock shoots me off course or tries to wash the front out. The difference between 5mph and 15mph can be huge. 45mph is even better.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
I mean, once a person understands the concept that locking up the front wheel is to be avoided, how does it help to learn where the lock up point on dirt is on a 250, when the goal is to learn where the lock up point is on a 1200? What I'm getting at is, isn't this apples to oranges almost?
The point is not to learn where the lockup point is on a 250 but rather to learn how to operate around lock up and the edges of traction with lesser consequences than dumping a heavy adventure bike with expensive plastic parts.

Lock up is NOT necessarily to be avoided. I routinely lock the rear without bad consequences and sometimes I even purposely lock the front. When I took the ERC (to get the insurance discount) on a V-Strom 1000 with TKC-80s, I was repeatedly and purposely locking the front in the "stop box", until they asked me not to. Lots of people purposely (but usually briefly) lock the front during dirt stops or even just slow-downs, no big deal locking the front if it's straight.

You may not be new to motorcycling but you are obviously at a lower skill level on loose material, or you would not have been asking what you've been asking. The 250 is to develop loose conditions technique that is indeed transferable to a heavier bike. I didn't get my 1st road bike (V-Strom 1000) until I was nearly 50. A lot of you could school me on street technique, but I had no trouble knowing how to brake the V-Strom on loose downhills.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedder View Post
you can go to 15psi easily. Maybe even 10psi.
But then watch out for bent rims. I guess you don't get "pinch flats" with tubeless but that soft and you could bend a rim on an obstacle. (I've bent two front rims on a V-Strom.) I have my doubts about going that low with a rear tire on a powerful bike. Dirt bikes that run soft pressure have rim locks.

Though on a dirt bike with tubed tires you HAVE TO not spin the tire on the rim, or else you rip out the valve stem. I have spun a rear (just a little) on a DRZ rear without rim locks, and the front on an XT-225 (from braking). But without a tube to rip the stem out of, maybe y'all don't care as much if your tubelsss spins on the rim?
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:35 PM   #50
tedder
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
The point is not to learn where the lockup point is on a 250 but rather to learn how to operate around lock up and the edges of traction with lesser consequences than dumping a heavy adventure bike with expensive plastic parts.
Yup. In fact it's basically impossible to experiement with a big heavy bike. I bet 99% of riders never learn how to slide a bike if they start on a porker.

But, the OP said he wasn't going get another bike, so.. good times! Enjoy repairing plastic or never learning how to actually ride on gravel.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #51
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Using the back brake and weighting the pegs to turn is fun.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #52
Starkmojo
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As a fellow dirt newbie one thing I do is plan ahead and be in the gear I want to be in at the top of the hill- that way I can slow down by letting off the gas. I know one other poster said something about engine breaking being unreliable but it seems to me to be the one thing that works pretty much the same on dirt as on pavement.

I Have been expirementing with breaking control on flat gravel roads (the neighbors probably think I am wacky riding up and down the same mile of road for an hour in the evening... but hey who cares what the neighbors think of me ?) getting a feel for my bikes charecteristics.

One shortcoming of my bike is that the PO added a tooth to the front sprocket, so its minimum down hill speed is more like 8-10mph on engine breaking which given some of the places I have been going is kinda speedy. I sit back on the seat to put some more weight on the rear and use a combimation of engine/rear break with a little front as I get used to it. More is better. The taller gearing also makes downhill hairpins require more breaking than I like because the motor will let the speed just come right back up- I like to touch the breaks, choose the gear and slip into the corner in a smooth series of motions but with the TDM on hairpins downhill she will creep back up on me so I find myself breaking just before the corner. I need to work on that I guess.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedder View Post
Yup. In fact it's basically impossible to experiement with a big heavy bike. I bet 99% of riders never learn how to slide a bike if they start on a porker.

But, the OP said he wasn't going get another bike, so.. good times! Enjoy repairing plastic or never learning how to actually ride on gravel.
Ooh, that's a bit harsh. A considered approach to putting all the good advice into practice, bit by bit, should go along way to preventing a major moment. Easy for me to say, I'm no longer full of vim & vinegar & it's taken me a year to really build some confidence in the loose. If the OP still has the vigorous glow of youth things may turn horizontal faster than expected.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:55 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Like I said, some top level desert racers used that technique all the time when the downhill was really rough rocky stuff. It is called "bulldoging" in rodeo as well as in this case.
Actually it was usually the back markers that were "bulldoging". The experts were long gone. The course layouts were better starting in the early "70's and the bikes improved so it was extinct by then. What did not stop were the groups of riders sometimes 20 deep that would sit there and wait there turn to go up a hill. This was a good opportunity to pass 20 riders all at once. Always motivation to get a good start in order to avoid all the bike carnage!
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:06 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan View Post
Actually it was usually the back markers that were "bulldoging". The experts were long gone. The course layouts were better starting in the early "70's and the bikes improved so it was extinct by then. What did not stop were the groups of riders sometimes 20 deep that would sit there and wait there turn to go up a hill. This was a good opportunity to pass 20 riders all at once. Always motivation to get a good start in order to avoid all the bike carnage!
I don't know about everyone, but if I remember right it was a top rider like Whitey Martino working his Triumph down an incredibly rough rocky steep downhill that I'm not sure I'd have wanted to ride down on a trials bike. It wasn't every down hill, just the ones that hinted at lots of broken parts or "certain death" on their 350 lb British twins with 4" of suspension and 4.00 trials tires on them. This was pretty much pre-European two stroke times mid-60s. Remember, JN Roberts actually ran a CL350 Honda twin in the desert circa 1971 or so still.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:08 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
The point is not to learn where the lockup point is on a 250 but rather to learn how to operate around lock up and the edges of traction with lesser consequences than dumping a heavy adventure bike with expensive plastic parts.
Actually the point is to slow down while going down the hill without falling on one's ass.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by tedder View Post
But, the OP said he wasn't going get another bike, so.. good times!....
if OP (or anyone) decides not to get another bike for dirt riding, that is their decision. What I was challenging was the rationalization that there was no point in getting a light bike because that would only teach him how to brake on a 250. No, it will help him learn how to brake in loose conditions.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:00 AM   #58
tedder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
if OP (or anyone) decides not to get another bike for dirt riding, that is their decision. What I was challenging was the rationalization that there was no point in getting a light bike because that would only teach him how to brake on a 250. No, it will help him learn how to brake in loose conditions.
I completely agree. Hence the snark.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:08 AM   #59
HappyCRNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleycatdad View Post
The best thing I did to increase confidence on steep dirt downhills of all kinds was to learn to stop on them.

Like most else, TITS helps.
Damn....you had me thinking I had an advantage here.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:11 AM   #60
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I know some folks have unlimited funds but I am just allowed one bike by the home office... I get away with two at the moment because my son is getting the other one. When funds allow I want a more streety bike (hmm like an XR1200, Triumph Bonneville or the like) not some little wasp-motored bike that weighs less than I do and cant drive on the street. So while I agree that it would be great, I can also see why the OP might not want to invest hundreds-thousands for a bike you might have to trailer to have any fun with.

Oh and as a preventative measure I took the plastic bits off (well the lower fairing anyway.) Now if I could just find a good engine gaurd....

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ATGATT...News flash - the only people who get any action dressed up like astronauts.....are actual astronauts.
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