ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #91
243Win
Studly Adventurer
 
243Win's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Oddometer: 705
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
I have the kind of luck that means one day I'll find myself way over my head, my bike lying on the ground like that pic, and a whole group of you enduro guys from this forum will show up.
If that happens, I'll eat crow. (As long as you help me pick up my bike.)
On my one off-pavement ride with inmates from here up in the PNW I found myself in that very same predicament.

Grabbed a handful of front brake in the gravel when the guy in front of me lowsided, washed out my front end immediately and found myself tumbling head over heels into the ditch with my DR650 chasing me.

They all pitched in to pick up the bike and the riders. And the comment was made, "We didn't know you so we thought it would be impolite to take pictures."

Rather genteel crowd I thought.
__________________
Excellent, our country is now run by folks that would allow you to smoke pot in Washington State, but not buy a Big-Gulp in New York.

10 State Trip 2010
2011, $1000 in the pocket, how far can we go
243Win is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 04:47 PM   #92
rz35027
Gnarly Adventurer
 
rz35027's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Oddometer: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by road_apple View Post
Try to narrow the gap between your skills and the capability of the bike by developing slowspeed skills on pavement first. Your bike is your bike. People don't have a perfect match between skills and their bike without practice, boo-boos and more practice. Get up on the pegs. Practice manuverability at slow speed to learn balance. Riding standing on the pegs on painted lines in a parking lot, weave a pattern between objects, then ride across a precast parking curb block without falling over, do figure 8's across the face of an incline driveway at slow speed. Invent ways to test your balance. You will learn braking, clutch control and balance or fall over trying. You can learn on a big bike(not as easy at first) you can learn on a trials bike(easier but you still fall). Without balance, speed is wasted on the foolish. Without balance you fall over. Once you learn lesson 1 Grasshopper...lesson 2 is loose surface control. Lesson 3 is speed control. Checkout big bike offroad courses. Practice.
That's good advice...
rz35027 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 05:23 PM   #93
CafeRacer99 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by 243Win View Post
On my one off-pavement ride with inmates from here up in the PNW I found myself in that very same predicament.

Grabbed a handful of front brake in the gravel when the guy in front of me lowsided, washed out my front end immediately and found myself tumbling head over heels into the ditch with my DR650 chasing me.

They all pitched in to pick up the bike and the riders. And the comment was made, "We didn't know you so we thought it would be impolite to take pictures."

Rather genteel crowd I thought.

Lol. The impression I've gotten from the short time I've been around here is that pictures are mandatory every time a bike is on it's side. And I wouldn't have expected "genteel" to be part of a description of this crowd!
__________________
Ride to Coffee
Coffee to Ride
CafeRacer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #94
viverrid
not dead yet
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Western Mass
Oddometer: 30,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
...Most of the folks responding to this thread get this and are posting good advice for making my way up and down dirt and gravel campground roads.
Your earlier post of: "going down a fairly steep switchback gravel road with some six-inch loose rock thrown in as well." didn't sound like just riding around the camp.
__________________
Advanced pancreatic cancer found 04/2010. Have outlived +/- 97% of patients with this diagnosis, but 08/2013 cancer now in liver, vascular system and lungs with 20+ lung tumors. Sick/weak sometimes, not riding much. No more treatments & now under Hospice care.
viverrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #95
tedder
irregular
 
tedder's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles (ktown)
Oddometer: 8,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
Your earlier post of: "going down a fairly steep switchback gravel road with some six-inch loose rock thrown in as well." didn't sound like just riding around the camp.
Loose six-inch rock isn't manageable on a 2wd car- I'm guessing isn't accurate.
tedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 07:39 PM   #96
CafeRacer99 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
Your earlier post of: "going down a fairly steep switchback gravel road with some six-inch loose rock thrown in as well." didn't sound like just riding around the camp.
The key word is "some." I posted a picture of the downhill I'm talking about in the ride report thread I've linked to previously.

Edited to add: Here is the road. Looks two-wheel drive car friendly. And there are a few larger rocks on it.

__________________
Ride to Coffee
Coffee to Ride
CafeRacer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 10:43 PM   #97
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 6,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
The key word is "some." I posted a picture of the downhill I'm talking about in the ride report thread I've linked to previously.

Edited to add: Here is the road. Looks two-wheel drive car friendly. And there are a few larger rocks on it.

That looks like something I'd comfortably ride on my streetbike, but I wouldn't be sliding around turns.
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #98
CafeRacer99 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
That looks like something I'd comfortably ride on my streetbike, but I wouldn't be sliding around turns.
Yes. There are just a couple of places where it's rocky on one half of the road or the other, so you have to switch sides. Or at least I did.

I seem to be having trouble getting the point across to a few people that these are the kinds of roads I'm planning on riding.
__________________
Ride to Coffee
Coffee to Ride
CafeRacer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 07:38 AM   #99
viverrid
not dead yet
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Western Mass
Oddometer: 30,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
'Several reasons to stop...Take in the view for a few seconds, survey the best route down, survey the best bail points if things get out of hand,
Easy there fella. Nobody is telling him to jump his bike off a cliff where he can't see the bottom. The OP was about slowing down on a ROAD with oncoming CAR traffic. I'm still just not seeing the need for a full stop. Not like he's gonna get a ticket for "rolling it". If he's going to ride down at 6 mph then why the need to slow to zero first. Just make sure he's not going any faster than 6.

Nothing wrong with "rolling the stop" since there doesn't need to even BE a stop in the first place. There isn't a car road out there that if you SLOW DOWN on a bike you can't see over whatever "edge" there is. THEN if you see there is an un-rideable washout (in which case cars wouldn't be using it either) you can stop. Otherwise no need. He's not bushwhacking a new trail, he is riding on an established ROAD.
__________________
Advanced pancreatic cancer found 04/2010. Have outlived +/- 97% of patients with this diagnosis, but 08/2013 cancer now in liver, vascular system and lungs with 20+ lung tumors. Sick/weak sometimes, not riding much. No more treatments & now under Hospice care.
viverrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 12:14 PM   #100
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,613
I have a question for the ABS users, as I understand the S10 cannot be turned off. Would you ride down this hill with your ABS engaged?

My understanding is, if 1 wheel locks up, the system disengages and applies brake to both wheels again. It seems to me that you would gather speed each time, making it more likely to occur again until you are out of control.

Somebody must agree or there would be no need of this development:http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...raking-system/

My F800gs is certainly heavy enough and coupled with a long wheel base, not the quickest turning bike. No ABS on it so left to my own devices.

Lots of compression braking, so I rely on it when I can. Tall geared so not always slow enough. I use both brakes, but pick and choose how much and where to apply the front. Solid ground, less pitch with the bike standing upright is the general rule. Feather the clutch or all in in order to keep from stalling.

Some times I stop at the top of a hill, just to get a look at the appropriate line downhill. No sense in making a hard trail harder.

Posters talk about off road as if all interchangeable, so I do not know what your definition is. The pic is of a dirt road and doable on a DL650 or TDM in my case.

If your definition is like the pic, do yourself a favor and beg, borrow or buy a lighter bike until you feel comfortable with it.

I spent years riding all makes of street bikes. It is not the same as riding off road. I started on a 350, jumped to a 650. That transition was greater than going from that to the F800gs.
__________________
BMW Motorrad USA customer service: "We make superior motorcycles and continue to improve them."
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 01:32 PM   #101
CafeRacer99 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Oddometer: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I have a question for the ABS users, as I understand the S10 cannot be turned off. Would you ride down this hill with your ABS engaged?
Speaking only for myself, this is not a road I'd want to try on my bike. I don't think the S10 is intended for this type of riding, although there are plenty of people who do roads like this and worse. I've seen the video, lol.

I don't have an answer on the ABS, I'd like to hear some thoughts as well.

To add a question, I remember reading years ago that some ABS systems on cars didn't engage if the vehicle speed was below 15 mph. It's too bad this isn't implemented on motorcycles. Seems like it would solve the "on vs off" debate once and for all. Any bikes do this?
__________________
Ride to Coffee
Coffee to Ride
CafeRacer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 01:45 PM   #102
tedder
irregular
 
tedder's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles (ktown)
Oddometer: 8,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I have a question for the ABS users, as I understand the S10 cannot be turned off. Would you ride down this hill with your ABS engaged?
Not a S10 person, but on my ABS bikes, I'd definitely turn it off for that. I'd pick my way down with brakes and a good line on a big dualsport, on a thumper I'd control my descent with the throttle and a grin.
tedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 01:45 PM   #103
tedder
irregular
 
tedder's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles (ktown)
Oddometer: 8,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post
Speaking only for myself, this is not a road I'd want to try on my bike. I don't think the S10 is intended for this type of riding, although there are plenty of people who do roads like this and worse. I've seen the video, lol.
Perfect description beween "can" and "should".
tedder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 05:59 PM   #104
AlsoRan
Lone Trail Of Dust
 
AlsoRan's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: West Coast
Oddometer: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I have a question for the ABS users, as I understand the S10 cannot be turned off. Would you ride down this hill with your ABS engaged?
The Super Tenere's ABS can be turned off, but for that hill I would just leave it on. The Super Tenere will handle those conditions without a problem especially since there is a hard base underneath the thin layer of silt. The biggest worry would be a tire puncture if on not-so suitable tires.

The main thing is not to be in a hurry when riding the big bike on a road like that. Typically when loaded down I usually take my time (no more chasing points in the desert for me), but here I would take caution to miss the BIG rocks as much as possible even going off the main line if needed. Also watch out for embedded rocks with sharp edges. It is ok to stop and "read" a line before proceeding like the OP indicates...excellent, just make sure you don't get hit from behind.

For me I would:

1. Use brakes to monitor speed.
2. Less compression braking, but be in a gear that will respond to throttle if needed (may need to "blip" the gas if loose rock shifts the bike sideways).
3. Use clutch to monitor power delivery, not to override braking though.

No need to practice with a lighter bike if you are ok handling the weight of a bigger bike if it shifts suddenly i.e.; because of a rock for example. Where this can be iffy is when gravity can take over and there is no way to stop until reaching the bottom, then having experience on a lighter bike would be important.
__________________
2012 Yamaha Super Ténéré

AlsoRan screwed with this post 06-24-2012 at 07:35 AM
AlsoRan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #105
sieg
Beastly Adventurer
 
sieg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Southern Illinois USA
Oddometer: 2,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeRacer99 View Post

To add a question, I remember reading years ago that some ABS systems on cars didn't engage if the vehicle speed was below 15 mph. It's too bad this isn't implemented on motorcycles. Seems like it would solve the "on vs off" debate once and for all. Any bikes do this?
All ABS turn off below a certain speed. Think about it, if the ABS released the brakes when the wheels stopped moving (lock-up) then you could never stop with ABS because brakes would release when you were almost stopped. I think my GS does not function below 7mph.
__________________
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.
Current bikes F800GS-EXCF350-Versys-690R-RZ350
sieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014