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Old 06-01-2005, 03:39 PM   #91
slide
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(sigh) so here I am again. I see the driven sprocket moving along an arc thus shortening the distance from it to the c.s. sprocket. Thus, if the chain would loosen from the diagram to any other point on its allowable arc. Thus if there were zero play at the diagram point, there would be >0 play at any other point on the allowable arc. Thus, you can have no play at all at the diagram point if the chain can operate with 0 catenary (I dunno).

I think that I'll take refuge in your last post about thermal expansion. We need slack at any point for that. Thus I retreat hoping to have held my head high with Mr Bird.
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Old 06-01-2005, 06:17 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide
Thus, you can have no play at all at the diagram point if the chain can operate with 0 catenary (I dunno).
you had me nodding all the way up to this fancy word: catenary - "the curve theoretically assumed by a perfectly flexible and inextensible cord of uniform density and cross section hanging freely from two fixed points"

i know you got an LC4 (schweet 05 SXC ya bastage ), like me (03 LC4a ), and i know it has a spec in the manual for tensioning the chain while the bike is on the center stand (i think, i hope ). why not use that? a wise bird once said to me in the park,

"The tightest point on any motorcycle chain is when a straight line can be drawn thru both sprocket centers and the swingarm pivot shaft. With a force of approximately 10 pounds applied to the chain at a point equidistant from the sprocket centers, chain slack should be 1/2” to 5/8” for ANY chain. This alignment point can be obtained by using tie downs to compress the rear suspension. After a chain is adjusted using this method, it will be confirmed correct when checked against the manufacturers method of adjustment."

can we go riding yet?
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Old 06-01-2005, 07:24 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meat popsicle
can we go riding yet?
Fuck no Meat....let's overthink this a little more
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Old 06-01-2005, 08:00 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Fuck no Meat....let's overthink this a little more
you bastage you!!!

alright!!!

Direct quote from my 03 KTM LC4 Adventure Owner's Manual:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOD
Checking chain tension
Support the motorcycle on the center stand or side stand, respectively.
Switch transmission to neutral.
Push the chain upwards appr. 30 mm (1,2 in) from the end of the chain sliding
component until the upper part of the chain is tensioned (see illustr.)
Now, the distance A between chain and swingarm should be 0 mm. The
upper part of the chain B must be tight (see illustr.).
Correct chain tension, if necessary!

WARNING

–IF CHAIN TENSION IS TOO GREAT, PARTS WITHIN THE SECONDARY POWER TRANSMIS-SION
(CHAIN, CHAIN SPROCKETS, TRANSMISSION AND REAR WHEEL BEARINGS) WILL BE
SUBJECTED TO UNNECESSARY STRESS, RESULTING IN PREMATURE WEAR AND EVEN
CHAIN BREAKAGE.
–TOO MUCH SLACK IN THE CHAIN, ON THE OTHER HAND, CAN RESULT IN THE CHAIN
JUMPING OFF THE CHAIN WHEELS. IF THIS HAPPENS, THE CHAIN COULD ALSO BLOCK
THE REAR WHEEL OR DAMAGE THE ENGINE.
–IN EITHER CASE THE OPERATOR IS LIKELY TO LOSE CONTROL OF THE MOTORCYCLE.
Of course w/ static sag, they are playing it a bit loosey-goosey saying center or side stand... but maybe a hunny mms don't amount to much arc-distance stuff and therefore tension.
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Old 06-01-2005, 09:18 PM   #95
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:05 AM   #96
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hey Meat, it really aint rocket science..... just adjust the fooker as per the Holy owners manual, you can believe what you read as the the guys that designed and built em told the guys who wrote up the manual, what to write....

an' besides a 'catenery' is a little birdy isn't, some sorta little yellow sucker?

Hasn't this thread been (hi)jacked-off? (excuse my dyslexia)
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:35 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braaap!
hey Meat, it really aint rocket science..... just adjust the fooker as per the Holy owners manual, you can believe what you read as the the guys that designed and built em told the guys who wrote up the manual, what to write....
I posted the bugger's directions directly above; that's what I am trying to convey here... WTF, you don't follow me either!?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by braaap!
an' besides a 'catenery' is a little birdy isn't, some sorta little yellow sucker?
no that's Tweety... gawd, don't'cha luv da peanut gallery?
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:11 AM   #98
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WTF??? A catenary is a furry feline which chases the birdie. The birdie can be one of those yellow cannery types which often give warning over torquing your steel bolts into an aluminum housing.

I don't think we've beaten this one as much as the synth v dino oil debate, but we're pushing it a bit. I'm wondering when one will chime in calling someone else a chain catenary Nazi.

-paul
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Old 06-02-2005, 08:48 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide
WTF??? A catenary is a furry feline which chases the birdie. The birdie can be one of those yellow cannery types which often give warning over torquing your steel bolts into an aluminum housing.

I don't think we've beaten this one as much as the synth v dino oil debate, but we're pushing it a bit. I'm wondering when one will chime in calling someone else a chain catenary Nazi.

-paul
Catene (pl. ) of Catena Catena (n.) A chain or series of things connected with each other. Catenary (a.) Alt. of Catenarian Catenarian (a.) Relating to a chain; like a chain; as, a catenary curve. Catenary (n.) The curve formed by a rope or chain of uniform density and perfect flexibility, hanging freely between two points of suspension, not in the same vertical line. Catenated (imp. & p. p.) of Catenate Catenating (p. pr. & vb. n.) of Catenate Catenate (v. t.) To connect, in a series of links or ties; to chain. Catenation (n.) Connection of links or union of parts, as in a chain; a regular or connected series. See Concatenation. Catenulate (a.) Consisting of little links or chains. Catenulate (a.) Chainlike; -- said both or color marks and of indentations when arranged like the links of a chain, as on shells, etc.

Ah! I get it! I think you meant the curve of the chain hanging between the front and rear sprokets... Still not exactly sure what "0" catenary means but I think you need consider that all chains operate with some slack (well, even cam timing chains? Probably eh? I know they use a tensioner that I didn't tension in time on my 78 KZ1000 ).

You MFG. has instructed you on how to tension your chain. If you doubt their veracity () some here-say from a little bird in the park lays out the theoretical basis for chain tensioning in general so you can check the MFG's specifications and method.

What more could a girl want?
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:19 AM   #100
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You guys are really getting some mileage out of yankin' yer chains.

FWIW, I use the manual's method. I do love the way nearly every non-KTM biker I encounter tells me my chain is too loose when they look at my bike parked on the centerstand.

I used to take the time to explain the deal to them, but it happens so frequently that now I just say, "Oh... yeah, thanks. I never noticed that. I'll have to look into that."
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:47 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LC4 Pilot
You guys are really getting some mileage out of yankin' yer chains.

FWIW, I use the manual's method. I do love the way nearly every non-KTM biker I encounter tells me my chain is too loose when they look at my bike parked on the centerstand.

I used to take the time to explain the deal to them, but it happens so frequently that now I just say, "Oh... yeah, thanks. I never noticed that. I'll have to look into that."
I think as long as it doesn't slip or come off you are good to go. I was practicing wheelies and mine slipped good reminder to adjust the booger.

FWIW, I always thought the hard part was actually adjusting tension (as per my first post in this hijack) not trying to accept the MFGs technique...
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:40 AM   #102
slide
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Here I go again...

A catenary is the curve, not only in theory and infinite, but actual of a rope, chain or other similar item, supported at two point. The path of the 'sag' is the catenary.

It's a fascinating topic if you wish to pursue it. If you look at a towboat pulling even a very heavy ship, you'll see a significant catenary on the towrope even at max tension.

Or maybe the catenary is the situation after the canary eats the cat.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:30 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slide
Here I go again...

A catenary is the curve, not only in theory and infinite, but actual of a rope, chain or other similar item, supported at two point. The path of the 'sag' is the catenary.

It's a fascinating topic if you wish to pursue it. If you look at a towboat pulling even a very heavy ship, you'll see a significant catenary on the towrope even at max tension.

Or maybe the catenary is the situation after the canary eats the cat.
well the mathmatical definition of a catenary is the rope suspended from two points at the same height; it never mentioned anything about load on either end.

but i do know what you are talking about with the tugs, those cables are heavy and do arc quite a bit under the water, even under load... what that has to do with tensioning a bike chain I have no idea. Guess I will ponder it this afternoon.

Maybe we should stick with Sylvester and Tweety? Better yet, just use the KTM specification.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:36 PM   #104
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:45 PM   #105
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Oh yeah!... spank that naughty horsemeat
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