The BMWs are (finally) coming

[BerndM]

These are supposed to be in the US around the same time as the BMW scooter.
Bigger, more powerful AND less money....
We'll see about that

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motor...lia-SRV850.htm

[JerryH]

I have never owned a BMW anything, and the main reason is price. But I have been part of the scooter/motorcycle scene all my life, and am familiar with the cost of BMWs compared to Asian and Italian bikes. I I expect the BMW to be about $5000 more than the Japanese maxi scooters. However, since a lot of it's parts are built in Asia, I could be wrong. But, is an Asian built BMW still a real BMW?

A lot has been made of the fact that Harley uses a lot of Asian made parts on their bikes, and therefore the bikes aren't really American. They are still an American design, but the presence of Asian parts does make me question their cost, as well as the fact that they are truly American. The same goes for BMW. BMW is well known as a German brand. And it used to be, but not so much anymore. For some time, BMW has been using non German made parts, including complete engines.

The same thing can also be said about Japanese bikes. Used to be that Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha were Japanese bikes. But that is no longer the case. Many of them are now being built in China, Taiwan, and Thailand.

It is becoming very confusing what is what anymore. Brand names used to mean something, but that is becoming less and less so. Many brand name vehicles are a hodgepodge of parts from all over, and in fact many are completely built in other countries. My 1985 Honda Goldwing was built in the U.S., though most of the parts were of Japanese origin. Now the Goldwing is again being built in Japan, but many of the parts are from third world countries.



BTW, I do like that Aprilia. I don't know how much of it is Italian, but it looks nice and it is probably high quality.

[elamofo]

Originally Posted by BerndM

These are supposed to be in the US around the same time as the BMW scooter.
Bigger, more powerful AND less money....
We'll see about that

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motor...lia-SRV850.htm

The Aprilia is an unbelievably beautiful scooter. However, I've heard horror stories about parts for the Italian bikes, and the underseat storage is pretty much useless. I mainly commute on my scooter so the storage is important. If I were to get a bike that wasn't practical I'd go back to a street bike. Someday maybe I'll have a practical scooter and an impractical bike, but I just feel guilty about not riding the one I'm not riding.

[elamofo]

Originally Posted by JerryH

I have never owned a BMW anything, and the main reason is price. But I have been part of the scooter/motorcycle scene all my life, and am familiar with the cost of BMWs compared to Asian and Italian bikes. I I expect the BMW to be about $5000 more than the Japanese maxi scooters. However, since a lot of it's parts are built in Asia, I could be wrong. But, is an Asian built BMW still a real BMW?

A lot has been made of the fact that Harley uses a lot of Asian made parts on their bikes, and therefore the bikes aren't really American. They are still an American design, but the presence of Asian parts does make me question their cost, as well as the fact that they are truly American. The same goes for BMW. BMW is well known as a German brand. And it used to be, but not so much anymore. For some time, BMW has been using non German made parts, including complete engines.

The same thing can also be said about Japanese bikes. Used to be that Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha were Japanese bikes. But that is no longer the case. Many of them are now being built in China, Taiwan, and Thailand.

It is becoming very confusing what is what anymore. Brand names used to mean something, but that is becoming less and less so. Many brand name vehicles are a hodgepodge of parts from all over, and in fact many are completely built in other countries. My 1985 Honda Goldwing was built in the U.S., though most of the parts were of Japanese origin. Now the Goldwing is again being built in Japan, but many of the parts are from third world countries.



BTW, I do like that Aprilia. I don't know how much of it is Italian, but it looks nice and it is probably high quality.

Globalization. Good or bad it's here to stay.

Cars.com has an American Made Index. 5 of the top 10 are Japanese companies.

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story....ory=amMade0611

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by damasovi

11K+ euros = 14-15 k usd? I am including importation duties... NOT ME

Damasovi

It's gonna be over $20k here..

[damasovi]

Originally Posted by Cortez

It's gonna be over $20k here..

if you want to be funny, in the USA they will sell, I think there is a big enough market for selling a limited amount of scooters even at that price, even if they are in a rescission there will be like 1000 rich people that will love them. Don't get me wrong, I have seen them in person and they give nothing to the Big Swing or the Burgman executive... you do feel the luxury under you.

Damasovi

[elamofo]

My guess is US pricing will be the same as the UK pricing, just swap the £ for a $:

http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/motorc...fications.html

Just before BMW announced the scooters in November, the 1 Euro cost $1.41. Now it's down to $1.24 and unless the EU can get things sorted out over there economically before October when prices are announced in the US it'll be even less.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by damasovi

if you want to be funny, in the USA they will sell, I think there is a big enough market for selling a limited amount of scooters even at that price, even if they are in a rescission there will be like 1000 rich people that will love them. Don't get me wrong, I have seen them in person and they give nothing to the Big Swing or the Burgman executive... you do feel the luxury under you.

Damasovi

Not being funny.
That's what they'll cost here.
About $18.5k for the basic 600 sport, and over $20 for the rest.

Not even trying one out, I'd pick the Burgman out of the bunch just because
of the transmission (se-cvt).

Or a DCT equipped Honda 700 Integra.

I think most scoots will end up with se-cvt like transmission in the future.
There's just too much compromises in the "normal" cvt.

[ErikDK]

The BMW is basically a Kymco, with mechanical CVT like a 50cc Baotan moped.

Electrically controlled CVT like Suzuki Burgman 650 and Aprilla 850 or dual clutch automatic like Honda 700 is the way to go.

[bobobob]

Originally Posted by elamofo

My guess is US pricing will be the same as the UK pricing, just swap the £ for a $.

That's not possible. They'd be taking a 40% currency hit.

[elamofo]

Originally Posted by bobobob

That's not possible. They'd be taking a 40% currency hit.

Well first you have to lop off the VAT, which I think is around 20%. But here's how I came up with that:

UK TMAX:
http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/produc...-tech-max.aspx
List Price: £8,549.00

US TMAX:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/pr...7/0/specs.aspx
List Price: $8,590

[vortexau]

Originally Posted by elamofo

The first BMW maxiscooters C 600 and C 650 Sport GT, whose production had been delayed, will be delivered on or after July 14, 2012 to their clients French, Italian and Spanish. These three strategic markets will be the first served.

Germany will wait until July 21, the rest of Europe until July 28, ultra-marine markets following the fall of 2012. In France, it will cost you € 11 100 for the BMW 600 Sport C, and € 11 450 for C 650 GT.

There seems to have been a reason for that delay:
BMW maxi scooters delayed

19 April 2012
Production of BMW’s two new maxi scooters has been delayed while the firm tries to remedy quality issues.

The C650 GT and C600 Sport were due to go on sale this month on the continent and next month in the UK but dealers are still waiting for news on when they will arrive.

BMW said: 'In order to ensure the product quality rightly expected by customers, some changes have to be made to tools used by suppliers. These tool measures will take some time to implement and have meant that vehicle production has had to be temporarily suspended.

MCN reported after riding the scooters, which cost £9395 upward, that glove box doors felt cheap and the C600 Sport’s opened when supposedly locked.

Peter Pueffel, BMW’ Project Manager for the scooters, said at the time: “The bikes that go on the market will be better.”

[mrnoitall]

Originally Posted by ErikDK

The BMW is basically a Kymco, .

. It's a German designed scooter that uses a Kymco engine. Nothing new. Kymco has been manufacturing engines and scooters for top Japanese and other manufactures for decades. BMW has been putting engines manufactured in Austria, China and Taiwan in their bikes for many years.

A Toyota Camry uses more American parts than a Ford Mustang, and a Honda Pilot can have more U S -made components than a Chevrolet Suburban
.
According to the Automobile Trade Policy Council, a lobbying group funded by GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler AG, the domestic content of all Toyota vehicles sold in the United States -- including imported models -- is 48 percent. Honda's is 59 percent and Nissan's 45 percent.For GM and Ford, the domestic parts content is 73 percent, and for DaimlerChrysler, it's 72. http://www.boston.com/cars/news/arti...ell/?page=full


There is no such thing as American made, or German made or Japanese made.

[elamofo]

BMW outsources engine production to Rotax also but I don't think anyone complains about that.

[Capt_Gruuvy]

I don't see it. I lived through an R75 and a K100 and I didn't do anything my Honda friends did not do ..... except pay more.

Just buy a Kymco and pocket the difference.