2013 F800GS and F700GS merged threadfest

[grndzr0]

Originally Posted by machinebuilder

Ok I've heard the front only ABS talked about over and over and over.

Just from a technical point, How could this happen?

(correct me is I missed something)

ABS works by sensing wheel speed, it relieves the braking pressure on the wheel that is slower (because it is locking up)

if you lock the rear wheel up to slide it, what is it going to use to detect the front is locking up or just coming to a stop?

Hmm That is a good question....

I'm fairly sure that there are bikes that can do thsi from the factory, but not for sure.

I would think it could be achieved by using the front wheel speed sensor, and not applying the brakes if the wheel is stopped, if it is getting no movement from the rear speed sensor.

Since the rear brake is locked up, if you were at a stop, that would hold you in place (not always depending on hills etc) and then the system could release the front brake until it starts to move again....

I'm not a brake engineer, but it seems like it could be accomplished...

Ryan

[Dano7619]

You guys are way smarter than me, but how does this matter when we are braking?

[JRWooden]

Originally Posted by machinebuilder

... if you lock the rear wheel up to slide it, what is it going to use to detect the front is locking up or just coming to a stop?

That is an excellent question ...

I have some ideas but I'm not sure any of them would be practical ... in an era where everyone is walking around lawyered-up ....

[machinebuilder]

Originally Posted by Dano7619

You guys are way smarter than me, but how does this matter when we are braking?

Go to a nice level gravel area and do some braking practice

1st. leave ABS on and grab all the brake it will let you (front and rear)
2nd. turn your ABS off and lock the rear tire, while threshold braking with the front (just shy of locking it up)

Oh be careful with #2, or you will practice picking the bike up


Which stops you faster.

All this is irrelevant to me as I have one of the few F8's without ABS, it just makes for interesting reading and discussion.

I personally don't like ABS on cars, or trucks, when the road is in bad shape (dirt, ice, snow, etc) i have slid much further with ABS than without. The more important thing is to stay within the limits and know how your vehicle is going to react.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Dano7619

You guys are way smarter than me, but how does this matter when we are braking?

I think it is mostly of academic interest and just, in general, knowing your machine strengths and weaknesses. Might alter your evaluation of whether you want ABS or think it is worth the money. And, as I mentioned earlier, I think avoiding rear braking in bumpy conditions may be warranted on early ABS bikes where minor ABS engagement in the rear can take away most of your stopping power on the front.

- Mark

[grndzr0]

Originally Posted by Dano7619

You guys are way smarter than me, but how does this matter when we are braking?

I have 20k miles ish on my 800, and my rear abs sensor has been broken for the last 10k so I currently have a no abs bike.

I ride my wifes 650 twin a fair bit which has functioning abs.

It works well, even off road. I have had very few offroad situations where I wish I had turned it off, loose gravel and steep downhills seem to be the main culprits.

I really like to skid the back tire on corners, probably just because its fun.

It would be nice to be able to grab a handfull of front brake ,abs on, essentially braking on the threshold of a skid, and also be able to skid the rear. This can kind of be accomplished by downshifting, but as soon as you are mid skid, that seems to be the time that your RPMs catch up, and your rear abs engages, and you almost high-side!!

Ryan

[guavadude]

The F700's are in at both local dealers so took one for a rest ride today. The grey looks great in the pics but looked even better in person.


All around great bike. I test rode a '10 f650 twin but that was a while back. This one seems a little slimmer/smaller. Could be the new cut of the plastics or just me being more comfortable on it.
The bike is perfectly balanced. Handles like my mountain bike. I could ride this anywhere and love it.

Very responsive throttle, seems better than the older model and the new gearing feels a little better. I was able to crawl along slowly and in control.

Shocks are too soft. I didn't adjust the rear but the front needs stiffer springs.
Also the rear shock spring is white. The bike is all dark and stylish and the white shock looks like they used some spares left on the shelf. This and the way too small windscreen were the only styling miscues.

Still needs a new seat which kinda pisses me off. How hard is it to put a little memory foam or gel in a seat?
To spend that much on a bike and then have to spend another $500 on a seat is frustrating. I can't imagine they haven't heard the complaints about the seat.

I forgot to try the ABS to see if there are offload modes but I think it's either on or off. The tires were brand new so I didn't ride hard enough to engage the abs.

Overall it's a great bike and a major upgrade from my '09 G650gs. The ones they had didn't have the computer and the dealer wasn't sure if that can be added or needs to come from the factory, so no new bike day today.

[JRWooden]

Originally Posted by guavadude

...Overall it's a great bike and a major upgrade from my '09 G650gs. The ones they had didn't have the computer and the dealer wasn't sure if that can be added or needs to come from the factory, so no new bike day today.

YOU SIR ARE NOT HELPING!!! I really shouldn't be thinking about trading in my '09

I'm parsing your comments, and yeah, I'll bet the new plastics might make it feel a bit slimmer ...

I thought the transmission gearing was the same and the sprocket gearing was only +1 tooth on the rear?
Maybe better ECU programming makes it more tractable at low RPM?

I thought the front shocks on the F658GS were way too soft ... and I guess we have the same setup there...
I installed the intiminators and did not cut down the spacer tube so that added maybe 5/8" of preload to the spring

Since the coolant temperature now comes standard maybe the OBC could be "switched on" at the dealer ... I don't know (on the old bikes the display panel was different if you didn't get the OBC so not able to upgrade in the field)

The R/R is now mounted like the it is on the F800R

Does the front fender now have little protectors/guards molded in to keep rocks from dinging the fork tubes?

Back in 06/2010 I paid $40 or something like that to have the engine control firmware upgraded to #7729159 ... I wonder what the current level is???

[bobobob]

Originally Posted by guavadude

The F700's are in at both local dealers so took one for a rest ride today. The grey looks great in the pics but looked even better in person.


All around great bike. I test rode a '10 f650 twin but that was a while back. This one seems a little slimmer/smaller. Could be the new cut of the plastics or just me being more comfortable on it.
The bike is perfectly balanced. Handles like my mountain bike. I could ride this anywhere and love it.

Very responsive throttle, seems better than the older model and the new gearing feels a little better. I was able to crawl along slowly and in control.

Shocks are too soft. I didn't adjust the rear but the front needs stiffer springs.
Also the rear shock spring is white. The bike is all dark and stylish and the white shock looks like they used some spares left on the shelf. This and the way too small windscreen were the only styling miscues.

Still needs a new seat which kinda pisses me off. How hard is it to put a little memory foam or gel in a seat?
To spend that much on a bike and then have to spend another $500 on a seat is frustrating. I can't imagine they haven't heard the complaints about the seat.

I forgot to try the ABS to see if there are offload modes but I think it's either on or off. The tires were brand new so I didn't ride hard enough to engage the abs.

Overall it's a great bike and a major upgrade from my '09 G650gs. The ones they had didn't have the computer and the dealer wasn't sure if that can be added or needs to come from the factory, so no new bike day today.

Thanks for the report. How much are they going for?

[guavadude]

Yes just the rear sprocket changed one tooth. Gearingcommander.com is a cool site where you can see the results of different gearing. I don't have enough experience with the 650 twins to know how it compares in real world riding.
If your '09 is a twin I wouldn't get the F7 unless you wanted dual discs and a warranty again. Although the single blinker control might be enough too! I like that much better than the dual switches. One thing I noticed is that the switch is so smooth I had to check the indicator light to see if it was actually on.
I'll do another test ride soon and will pay more attention to the bike. It was rush hour and I was too busy dodging cagers.

I thought the brakes felt great and that bike is so quick, I think the dual front discs are a very good thing. Hope it has the option for front abs only but I doubt it.

[guavadude]

$10,735 was the sticker price. $9,990 for the bike, $495 destination fee, $250 heated grips. I think the ESA, TPM and ASC add another grand.
I want the "comfort pkg" listed on the BMW site..heated grips, computer, center stand and luggage mounts. This first wave of bikes had only the grips. The pkg is a better deal and cheaper than piece by piece. Still waiting to see if the computer is a factory only option. The stock indicator is the same and has two trip settings, and full time temp and fuel level. The info button is on the left grip and is very convenient. This might be new. The ergo of everything is very good.

I think they are going to sell a ton of these and the new F8 in that bronze color. This bike looks great in the showroom.

One dealer had a fully loaded F7 in gray and sold it in one day.

Off to read seat and windshield threads!

[petzi-baer]

Originally Posted by bobobob

Thanks for the report. How much are they going for?

Max Motorcycles has them now on their website:
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/machine/machine.aspx

so you can check out the prices in the US

petzi-baer

[JRWooden]

Originally Posted by guavadude

... If your '09 is a twin I wouldn't get the F7 unless you wanted dual discs and a warranty again.

Thanks ... mine is the twin and honestly I don't think I've ever run out of brakes with the single disk,
I likely will see what they would give me on a trade-in ...
Of course then I'd have to move my farkles over ... or are farkles recognized as adding value on a trade?

Luggage rack comes as part of the comfort package?
Is the the rails for the BMW panniers or something else?

[guavadude]

definitely take the farkles off the bike and move them over. Even if you want different farkles, take them off and sell them.
I'm not sure what the case mounts are that come in the comfort pkg. Pretty sure they are not the side rails and are for the top case mounting.

[guavadude]

From the beauty BMW pics, looks like the shock spring was black and then they changed it to white on production.
I'm hoping they just wanted to use up some old paint and will change it back to black. I guess it will be covered in dirt soon enough. It just looks odd to me on a bike where everything else looks great. Nothing a can of krylon can't fix.