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Old 08-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #256
swimmer
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Originally Posted by austinc14 View Post
what they need to do is stop putting the fucking immobilizers on motorcycles.

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #257
bluesman
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I strongly hope that someone would come up with immobilizer elimination...something...software and hardware. Guys had this trouble with BMW and for exactly same reason. I also seen this happen to new Honda. Yet immobilizer does totaly nothing for bike security...I wonder if I too have to carry spare immobilizer antennae
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:04 PM   #258
phillipsrog
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Good information

What you're saying makes sense. When I first explained my problem to the dealer, he emphatically said there was no way in could be heat related. I'm no mechanic or engineer, but I know basic troubleshooting and all signs pointed to it being heat related. It didn't take a genius to see that on a hot, sunny day the immobilizer kicked on happened and on cool or cloudy days it didn't. You've confirmed my suspicion and explained why. I appreciate that. I honestly hope it's a simple problem that is easily fixed. My new Triumph dealer has been great to work with so far. He's called me a couple times with updates just to let me know what's going on. He also offered to put my bike back together and let me ride it if the parts take too long to get here. That's pretty cool.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:31 PM   #259
AustinC14
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Originally Posted by phillipsrog View Post
What you're saying makes sense. When I first explained my problem to the dealer, he emphatically said there was no way in could be heat related. I'm no mechanic or engineer, but I know basic troubleshooting and all signs pointed to it being heat related. It didn't take a genius to see that on a hot, sunny day the immobilizer kicked on happened and on cool or cloudy days it didn't. You've confirmed my suspicion and explained why. I appreciate that. I honestly hope it's a simple problem that is easily fixed. My new Triumph dealer has been great to work with so far. He's called me a couple times with updates just to let me know what's going on. He also offered to put my bike back together and let me ride it if the parts take too long to get here. That's pretty cool.
Well my dealer took the bike and can't give me an ETA on when it will be released back to me, and that might have something to do with the Lemon Law in Texas, because if they don't fix it this time around, the Lemon Law will kick in; so I'm guessing they are going to hang on to it for as long as they can to get it resolved (the other end of the LL states that they can work on the issue for a total of 30 days, and they have only had the bike for a total of 6 days with all of the service visits for this issue).

I wish you luck with yours. The Tiger line is a great line of bikes. I love the smoothness of the triple, and Triumph has incorporated some great features that other manufactures missed. However, if they can't give me a reliable bike, then everything else just doesn't matter. For me, reliability is the most important feature of any type of vehicle. and can not be compromised.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
For me, reliability is the most important feature of any type of vehicle. and can not be compromised.
That's why this time around, I bought a bike with my head not my heart. I was tired of owning bikes with reliability issues. I've had too many vacations ruined by ride ending failures. I will fore go "character" or "sexiness" for plain old reliability. I want to spend my time riding, not worrying or hanging on forums trying to see if others have the same issues I did..

I find it rather strange that Yamaha sells the FJR1300 and the Super Tenere in Europe and in Canada with an immobilizer but in the US it's sold without one.
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Against The Wind View Post
That's why this time around, I bought a bike with my head not my heart. I was tired of owning bikes with reliability issues. I've had too many vacations ruined by ride ending failures. I will fore go "character" or "sexiness" for plain old reliability. I want to spend my time riding, not worrying or hanging on forums trying to see if others have the same issues I did..

I find it rather strange that Yamaha sells the FJR1300 and the Super Tenere in Europe and in Canada with an immobilizer but in the US it's sold without one.
Can't say I blame you. If I wanted a bike with no character and no "sexiness" I would have picked the Tenere as well.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
. I myself long for the day when we used to be able to just kick start a bike, even if it had a dead battery.
+1...all the new techno wizardry on new bikes is great and all, but it is part of the dumbing down of society...traction control, ABS, onboard computers....wonderful stuff, but it takes away from the visceral experience, makes us safer (removes some of the responsibility and risk from the rider) and less capable to do our own work on the bikes (which of course means we relay on the dealer more). I see lots of riders that have no idea how to change the oil on a 2 stroke single, taking thier dirt bike to the shop for a basic service or paying a mechanic to change a tire. I am not that old, but I do miss the good old days sometimes.

Ok rant off. Good luck with the immobilizer!
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:13 AM   #263
Against The Wind
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Originally Posted by burmbuster View Post
Can't say I blame you. If I wanted a bike with no character and no "sexiness" I would have picked the Tenere as well.
That's where you'd be mistaken.. Much to my surprise, the engine has as much "character" as the GS's boxer and nowhere near as bland as parallel twin GS. Looks are subjective as well, and I find the Tenere quite distinctive, and not another me too beaked copy cat styling. My FJR has become a dust collector. Choice is good.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:33 AM   #264
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So if issue related to overheating of immobilizer antenna specially on hot sunny day...would it make any sense to botch up some kind of white plastic "cover" that would be installed with some 5 mm (for example) distance from immobilizer ring? To go around barrel of ignition lock and out?
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:08 PM   #265
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I still think this is a fairly isolated problem considering how many Tigers are now out there and NOT reporting the problem. But my answer would be yes to a shield. It would not eliminate the problem, but it might minimize it.

I had the immobilizer light come on and threw my mesh jacket over the tank and had it restart in about 5 minutes. The problem I run into is after it restarts, I can't really prove that shade "fixed" the problem and I guess I really don't care because the bike is running again.

But I do know this. If I leave the bike in the sun, eventually it will restart. If I move it into the shade or throw my jacket over it, it usually restarts in 15 minutes or less. And I have never had the immobilizer kick in on a cold or overcast day.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:41 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
I'm located in Austin, TX, and I have a 1200 Explorer that I purchased in the middle of May, and I have been having the same issue since the very first time I went to start the bike (trailered it home from the dealer). It is in the shop for the third time (Texas Lemon Law states a vehicle is a Lemon upon the 4th visit), and they are finally telling me they are going to replace the antenna for the immobilizer (which is what I asked them to replace on day one, but they wouldn't do it).

I understand Phillipsrog is having this replaced on his 800, and my guess is that this will resolve the issue. After reading Aarlint's posts, it doesn't look like they ever replaced that, and I'm guessing that if they had, it would have resolved the issue.

I have a bit of an electronics background, so I'll tell you what I surmise of this issue. Unless there is a thermistor built into the immobilizer circuitry, it would not temporarily stop working just because it got hot; it would stop working permanently. However, the key communicates wirelessly through the immobilizer's antenna; and apparently the antenna is weak at best. Extreme heat only makes this weak antenna weaker. I have noticed that once the temperature reaches near 100F, or has been in 90F+ direct sunlight for a length of time, combined with the engine heat, I almost consistently have the problem.

My dealer has finally decided that the antenna needs to be replaced. I don't believe any US dealer keeps these in stock, so they are having to order it. I am guessing that the quality of these antennas vary, and while most of them pass QA when they are produced, a handful of them (I'm so lucky to have one of them) barely pass QA. What they need to do is raise their QA standards so that these handfuls of antennas do not pass as well.

I know an engineer who deals with wireless frequencies on a daily basis, and he has always told me that due to noise, etc, the regulations are very tight, so I understand the issues that the company that manufactures the antenna has to deal with. That being said, if automotive manufacturers want to put these wireless devices in our vehicles and make them a single point-of-failure, then they better make sure that these things are bullet-proof. I myself long for the day when we used to be able to just kick start a bike, even if it had a dead battery.
I'm anxious to find out how this is resolved because my 1200 Explorer is also dead and the dealer is clueless, almost a month now I've been waiting for a fix.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #267
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Talking

Austin C14 sez:

" I am guessing that the quality of these antennas vary, and while most of them pass QA when they are produced, a handful of them (I'm so lucky to have one of them) barely pass QA. What they need to do is raise their QA standards so that these handfuls of antennas do not pass as well."

Having a long history of working in engineering, QA, and product support, maybe you shouldn't be so tough on QA. It is possible QA is inspecting these antenna to the specifications provided. And the antenna may very well be within range to be acceptable to the specifications. But it is more than likely the engineering specifications may be a bigger issue than what the QA people are doing. Good QA people accept product that is within specification. If the specification is wrong, that is an engineering issue, not a QA issue.....
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:33 PM   #268
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A couple of people have messaged me to know what is happening with this issue, so I decided to go ahead and provide an update.

Since the Explorer went it to the shop on July 31st, neither the dealer or manufacturer have contacted me to provide an update. I have had to contact the dealer everytime, and I get conflicting information when I do. Over a week ago I called the dealer and the service department told me that they were going to order a new antenna for the immobilizer. Four days later I called again to see what the status was, and they said they were running diagnostics. Speaking to the same service tech I talked to four days earlier, I reminded him of what he told me four days prior. He put me on hold for a few minutes, then came back and said that they were waiting on approval from Triumph to get the part.

Today I called the dealer(Lone Star BMW/Triumph) to see what was going on, and they said they had sent an email to Triumph about the part they needed, and were waiting on Triumph to respond. I decided it was time to call Triumph. I called the customer service number (678-854-2010) and talked to Mathew. Mathew, in a very unconcerned and annoyed tone said that they were waiting on the dealer to provide diagnostics. I told him that the dealer said they were waiting on a response from Triumph, and he told me that wasn't true. I told him that the level of service I have been getting from both Triumph and the dealer is unacceptable (especially since Triumph motorcycles come at a premium price), and he did not seemed concerned. I also told him that it is ridiculous that I (the customer) must make all of the phone calls to Triumph and the dealer (Lone Star) to get any sort of update, and neither of them call me. Still in a unconcerned tone, he said that he could call the dealer. I then let him know that I am not happy because I have had this problem since the first time I turned the key in the ignition after trailering the motorcycle home, and the bike has spent so much time in the shop, yet no loaner motorcycle was provided to me during this time. I told him it was a poor way of handling a customer with a new bike. He told me that Triumph doesn't provide loaner bikes, and that only the dealer can do that.

After that worthless conversation, I called the dealer and talked to the General Manager (Peter). I told him that his service department says they are waiting on Triumph to pull the trigger, and Triumph said that they were waiting on the dealer to provide more diagnostics. Peter said he would look in to the issue and call me back in a hour.

An hour later Peter called me back and said that there was confusion on their end on how to read the emails from Triumph, so previous to today, they weren't getting those emails. He also said that they dropped the ball on calling me and keeping me updated (however I'm not expecting any change with their lack of communication). He said that they are ordering a new ignition system (which will come with new key locks for the tank and seat as well). I told him that they need to make sure they order new locks for the saddlebags (I purchased the Triumph saddlebags when I purchased the TEx), and he said he would see what he could do. I told him to make sure they get them, as I am not going to come back to the shop again to get those locks replaced. Since we know we need them, get them. He said he would have to check on it. I did not get a good feeling from the way he said that. I am almost certain this is another ball which will get dropped, which is unacceptable since we discussed it and I told him that they need to get them, as I am not going to come back in to resolve this issue. I asked for an ETA on getting my bike back, and gave me an ETA of 7 days.

A few minutes after I got off the phone with Peter, I got a call from Mark at Triumph, who is the Rep at Triumph that the dealer works with. I told him I just got off the phone with the GM, Peter. I asked him how fast they can get the ignition system to the dealer, and Mark said as soon as the dealer sends the diagnostics to them. So here we go again. He said/She said. Fed up, I told him to expect a letter for a full refund on this motorcycle when the 30th day of it being in the shop is reached. I hung up.

Bottom line; this motorcycle has been in the shop for two weeks regarding this issue, and they haven't even ordered a part yet. There is a great lack of concern for getting the issue resolved with both Lone Star BMW/Triumph, and the Triumph USA Reps. Will I be buying another Triumph, or another motorcycle from Lone Star? Highly unlikely! This is no way to treat your customers.

AustinC14 screwed with this post 08-10-2012 at 08:42 PM
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #269
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Hmmm, I just came back from the local Triumph dealer, I was looking at a Tiger 800 roadie.
I can understand an isolated incident (the OP) but now there are a couple of Tiger incidents coupled with a couple of Explorers as well?

Subscribed....and really thinking if I want to take the chance I will get a non-starter.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #270
phillipsrog
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Another update

Mine is a little better news. My new shop, Birds of Prey, took my bike about two weeks ago and did a diagnostic and decided the antenna in the ignition is the problem. They ordered the part, and we're still waiting for it. When I dropped off the bike I told the service manager I had a week-long ride coming up that has been planned for months. He said if the parts didn't arrive, he would put my bike back together and let me take it, which he did.

It cost his guys a couple hours of extra work to put it back together, and the service manager personally test rode it to make sure it was ready for my trip.

Despite not having the ignition fixed, at least I got it back. I'm confident it will work on my trip since it's an intermittent problem that delays the bike restarting.

I really appreciate the guys at Birds of Prey doing some extra work to make sure I can go. That's good customer service and making the best of a bad situation. I will do all my business with these guys in the future. They've treated me fairly even though I didn't buy the bike from them and they just became a Triumph dealer.
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