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Old 08-01-2012, 02:45 PM   #256
PiJiL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burmbuster View Post
There are always going to be those who take advantage of the system. Any system. But the system works. It's worked better than any other system in the world.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:59 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by PiJiL View Post
The US is the laughing stock of the world with all the litigation they enact upon.....

All sueing some does is increase the price of goods and line the pockets of lawyers,..........
What struck me about the article was that Mercedes did not pay the guy for 4 years after a court order.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:50 AM   #258
AustinC14
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Another Tiger that won't start

I'm located in Austin, TX, and I have a 1200 Explorer that I purchased in the middle of May, and I have been having the same issue since the very first time I went to start the bike (trailered it home from the dealer). It is in the shop for the third time (Texas Lemon Law states a vehicle is a Lemon upon the 4th visit), and they are finally telling me they are going to replace the antenna for the immobilizer (which is what I asked them to replace on day one, but they wouldn't do it).

I understand Phillipsrog is having this replaced on his 800, and my guess is that this will resolve the issue. After reading Aarlint's posts, it doesn't look like they ever replaced that, and I'm guessing that if they had, it would have resolved the issue.

I have a bit of an electronics background, so I'll tell you what I surmise of this issue. Unless there is a thermistor built into the immobilizer circuitry, it would not temporarily stop working just because it got hot; it would stop working permanently. However, the key communicates wirelessly through the immobilizer's antenna; and apparently the antenna is weak at best. Extreme heat only makes this weak antenna weaker. I have noticed that once the temperature reaches near 100F, or has been in 90F+ direct sunlight for a length of time, combined with the engine heat, I almost consistently have the problem.

My dealer has finally decided that the antenna needs to be replaced. I don't believe any US dealer keeps these in stock, so they are having to order it. I am guessing that the quality of these antennas vary, and while most of them pass QA when they are produced, a handful of them (I'm so lucky to have one of them) barely pass QA. What they need to do is raise their QA standards so that these handfuls of antennas do not pass as well.

I know an engineer who deals with wireless frequencies on a daily basis, and he has always told me that due to noise, etc, the regulations are very tight, so I understand the issues that the company that manufactures the antenna has to deal with. That being said, if automotive manufacturers want to put these wireless devices in our vehicles and make them a single point-of-failure, then they better make sure that these things are bullet-proof. I myself long for the day when we used to be able to just kick start a bike, even if it had a dead battery.

AustinC14 screwed with this post 08-02-2012 at 12:40 PM
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #259
swimmer
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Originally Posted by austinc14 View Post
what they need to do is stop putting the fucking immobilizers on motorcycles.

.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:12 PM   #260
bluesman
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I strongly hope that someone would come up with immobilizer elimination...something...software and hardware. Guys had this trouble with BMW and for exactly same reason. I also seen this happen to new Honda. Yet immobilizer does totaly nothing for bike security...I wonder if I too have to carry spare immobilizer antennae
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:04 PM   #261
phillipsrog
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Good information

What you're saying makes sense. When I first explained my problem to the dealer, he emphatically said there was no way in could be heat related. I'm no mechanic or engineer, but I know basic troubleshooting and all signs pointed to it being heat related. It didn't take a genius to see that on a hot, sunny day the immobilizer kicked on happened and on cool or cloudy days it didn't. You've confirmed my suspicion and explained why. I appreciate that. I honestly hope it's a simple problem that is easily fixed. My new Triumph dealer has been great to work with so far. He's called me a couple times with updates just to let me know what's going on. He also offered to put my bike back together and let me ride it if the parts take too long to get here. That's pretty cool.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:31 PM   #262
AustinC14
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Originally Posted by phillipsrog View Post
What you're saying makes sense. When I first explained my problem to the dealer, he emphatically said there was no way in could be heat related. I'm no mechanic or engineer, but I know basic troubleshooting and all signs pointed to it being heat related. It didn't take a genius to see that on a hot, sunny day the immobilizer kicked on happened and on cool or cloudy days it didn't. You've confirmed my suspicion and explained why. I appreciate that. I honestly hope it's a simple problem that is easily fixed. My new Triumph dealer has been great to work with so far. He's called me a couple times with updates just to let me know what's going on. He also offered to put my bike back together and let me ride it if the parts take too long to get here. That's pretty cool.
Well my dealer took the bike and can't give me an ETA on when it will be released back to me, and that might have something to do with the Lemon Law in Texas, because if they don't fix it this time around, the Lemon Law will kick in; so I'm guessing they are going to hang on to it for as long as they can to get it resolved (the other end of the LL states that they can work on the issue for a total of 30 days, and they have only had the bike for a total of 6 days with all of the service visits for this issue).

I wish you luck with yours. The Tiger line is a great line of bikes. I love the smoothness of the triple, and Triumph has incorporated some great features that other manufactures missed. However, if they can't give me a reliable bike, then everything else just doesn't matter. For me, reliability is the most important feature of any type of vehicle. and can not be compromised.
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:06 PM   #263
Against The Wind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
For me, reliability is the most important feature of any type of vehicle. and can not be compromised.
That's why this time around, I bought a bike with my head not my heart. I was tired of owning bikes with reliability issues. I've had too many vacations ruined by ride ending failures. I will fore go "character" or "sexiness" for plain old reliability. I want to spend my time riding, not worrying or hanging on forums trying to see if others have the same issues I did..

I find it rather strange that Yamaha sells the FJR1300 and the Super Tenere in Europe and in Canada with an immobilizer but in the US it's sold without one.
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Old 08-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #264
burmbuster
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Originally Posted by Against The Wind View Post
That's why this time around, I bought a bike with my head not my heart. I was tired of owning bikes with reliability issues. I've had too many vacations ruined by ride ending failures. I will fore go "character" or "sexiness" for plain old reliability. I want to spend my time riding, not worrying or hanging on forums trying to see if others have the same issues I did..

I find it rather strange that Yamaha sells the FJR1300 and the Super Tenere in Europe and in Canada with an immobilizer but in the US it's sold without one.
Can't say I blame you. If I wanted a bike with no character and no "sexiness" I would have picked the Tenere as well.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
. I myself long for the day when we used to be able to just kick start a bike, even if it had a dead battery.
+1...all the new techno wizardry on new bikes is great and all, but it is part of the dumbing down of society...traction control, ABS, onboard computers....wonderful stuff, but it takes away from the visceral experience, makes us safer (removes some of the responsibility and risk from the rider) and less capable to do our own work on the bikes (which of course means we relay on the dealer more). I see lots of riders that have no idea how to change the oil on a 2 stroke single, taking thier dirt bike to the shop for a basic service or paying a mechanic to change a tire. I am not that old, but I do miss the good old days sometimes.

Ok rant off. Good luck with the immobilizer!
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:13 AM   #266
Against The Wind
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Originally Posted by burmbuster View Post
Can't say I blame you. If I wanted a bike with no character and no "sexiness" I would have picked the Tenere as well.
That's where you'd be mistaken.. Much to my surprise, the engine has as much "character" as the GS's boxer and nowhere near as bland as parallel twin GS. Looks are subjective as well, and I find the Tenere quite distinctive, and not another me too beaked copy cat styling. My FJR has become a dust collector. Choice is good.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:33 AM   #267
bluesman
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So if issue related to overheating of immobilizer antenna specially on hot sunny day...would it make any sense to botch up some kind of white plastic "cover" that would be installed with some 5 mm (for example) distance from immobilizer ring? To go around barrel of ignition lock and out?
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:08 PM   #268
phillipsrog
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I still think this is a fairly isolated problem considering how many Tigers are now out there and NOT reporting the problem. But my answer would be yes to a shield. It would not eliminate the problem, but it might minimize it.

I had the immobilizer light come on and threw my mesh jacket over the tank and had it restart in about 5 minutes. The problem I run into is after it restarts, I can't really prove that shade "fixed" the problem and I guess I really don't care because the bike is running again.

But I do know this. If I leave the bike in the sun, eventually it will restart. If I move it into the shade or throw my jacket over it, it usually restarts in 15 minutes or less. And I have never had the immobilizer kick in on a cold or overcast day.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:41 PM   #269
JoeRoberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinC14 View Post
I'm located in Austin, TX, and I have a 1200 Explorer that I purchased in the middle of May, and I have been having the same issue since the very first time I went to start the bike (trailered it home from the dealer). It is in the shop for the third time (Texas Lemon Law states a vehicle is a Lemon upon the 4th visit), and they are finally telling me they are going to replace the antenna for the immobilizer (which is what I asked them to replace on day one, but they wouldn't do it).

I understand Phillipsrog is having this replaced on his 800, and my guess is that this will resolve the issue. After reading Aarlint's posts, it doesn't look like they ever replaced that, and I'm guessing that if they had, it would have resolved the issue.

I have a bit of an electronics background, so I'll tell you what I surmise of this issue. Unless there is a thermistor built into the immobilizer circuitry, it would not temporarily stop working just because it got hot; it would stop working permanently. However, the key communicates wirelessly through the immobilizer's antenna; and apparently the antenna is weak at best. Extreme heat only makes this weak antenna weaker. I have noticed that once the temperature reaches near 100F, or has been in 90F+ direct sunlight for a length of time, combined with the engine heat, I almost consistently have the problem.

My dealer has finally decided that the antenna needs to be replaced. I don't believe any US dealer keeps these in stock, so they are having to order it. I am guessing that the quality of these antennas vary, and while most of them pass QA when they are produced, a handful of them (I'm so lucky to have one of them) barely pass QA. What they need to do is raise their QA standards so that these handfuls of antennas do not pass as well.

I know an engineer who deals with wireless frequencies on a daily basis, and he has always told me that due to noise, etc, the regulations are very tight, so I understand the issues that the company that manufactures the antenna has to deal with. That being said, if automotive manufacturers want to put these wireless devices in our vehicles and make them a single point-of-failure, then they better make sure that these things are bullet-proof. I myself long for the day when we used to be able to just kick start a bike, even if it had a dead battery.
I'm anxious to find out how this is resolved because my 1200 Explorer is also dead and the dealer is clueless, almost a month now I've been waiting for a fix.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:44 PM   #270
Rich B
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Talking

Austin C14 sez:

" I am guessing that the quality of these antennas vary, and while most of them pass QA when they are produced, a handful of them (I'm so lucky to have one of them) barely pass QA. What they need to do is raise their QA standards so that these handfuls of antennas do not pass as well."

Having a long history of working in engineering, QA, and product support, maybe you shouldn't be so tough on QA. It is possible QA is inspecting these antenna to the specifications provided. And the antenna may very well be within range to be acceptable to the specifications. But it is more than likely the engineering specifications may be a bigger issue than what the QA people are doing. Good QA people accept product that is within specification. If the specification is wrong, that is an engineering issue, not a QA issue.....
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