ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-19-2012, 08:49 PM   #31
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Are your sure that crown wheel bearing is bad?

It looks good from here.
I said I was...practising. For that just in case moment when I may have to do it under a shade tree.Or fix someone else's. Entirely possible that....bearing fails, back on the road in a few hours. No downtime.

There are some other tricks that may involve heating the bearing in a ziploc with gear oil, then drop in boiling water, may help a lot for "roadside" installation. A can of "freeze out" to cool the carrier, should slide right in.

BTW, that one bearing is fine that's a R100GS drive, 1988, back from when they were called bulletproof. But for the case all the same parts/methods/tools.

So, for those worried, all you may need "on the road" is that small easily packable puller,a spare bearing and seal, maybe a motel room and an autoparts store close by.

Just don't forget the proper hex wrench for the cover....7mm I think but I could be wrong, will look tomorrow. That wrench may not be in your toolkit and may be hard to find in the middle of nowhere.

I sort of glossed over the preload, that's critical but "on the road" I'd certainly ignore it and reinstall the same shims. It is not as if a new bearing would fail right away even without the correct preload. Will get me home to my proper measuring tools I am sure of that. Could be "a few" thousand miles....
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #32
vagueout
Beastly Adventurer
 
vagueout's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: sydney, east
Oddometer: 1,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJSharkfan View Post
My '02 1150 Adv has 57000 miles on it. A few other seals and parts have worn out and/or failed.

Seems like cheap insurance just to replace it BEFORE it fails.

Should I not worry and carry a spare or just do it now.
I did mine as a preventative at 100,000klm/60,000mls earlier this year, also a new input seal and sleeve. The old bearing felt fine until i washed it in solvent, the bearing was then feeling a little rough when rolled. Likewise with the throttle cables, felt fine, removed them and saw how far gone they were, down to a few strands on one side!! Much rather do any job in my little workshop than on the road.
__________________
i just seek clarity
vagueout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 10:44 PM   #33
skwatr
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Palmetto,FL
Oddometer: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Ya know, this will be debated for years after I'm gone so, I'll give you my opinion on repairs before failures.....

DON'T DO IT!

Seals do wear with time but, the seals we have all over our boxer GSes are in reality pretty high quality. The seals in my 1995 Ford don't leak and they are all OE.

So, I say, don't fix what isn't broken 'cause your fix may bring on a failure due you your inability to do it right.

If you must remove the hub seal from the FD, I would make sure the area the seal rides on is prepared by applying emery cloth to the area before installing the new seal. This goes for any seal in a rotary application.
Amen DEF, If it ain't broke don't fix it!
FD removed after too many beverages. slowly figuring out how to remove cover while wasting time reading posts. heat is the key, just came apart. this would be some great web cam comedy stuff!
skwatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #34
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagueout View Post
I did mine as a preventative at 100,000klm/60,000mls earlier this year, also a new input seal and sleeve. The old bearing felt fine until i washed it in solvent, the bearing was then feeling a little rough when rolled. Likewise with the throttle cables, felt fine, removed them and saw how far gone they were, down to a few strands on one side!! Much rather do any job in my little workshop than on the road.
Take "Old" bearing...put on anvil standing up, cover with thick rag and whack with the sledge hammer. That should break it for further inspections. Don't do that....just what we did back then to collect bearing balls. Zipcut works well.

No real need to do that anyway, if someone wants to see the mode of failures, just have to go on the K1200LTs forums and look up CharlieVT's posts on that. That's the guy who made the Video on replacing/preloading I think he was up to 50 drives openings last time I checked and that was a while ago.

The input seal.....that costed me quite a few $$$$ to get done before at "a specialized BMW shop" for my other BMW. And the aggravation of waiting for them to even do it. Just checked recently and seems to be seeping again, as I suspected they never replaced the sleeve, that's in the manual and only $10-15.00.....good thing I learned that procedure also, may have to do it myself this time around.

BTW, that drive I showed above was leaking at the input seal and the sleeve showed damages. In the book....or at least in my book, replace with the seal.

This should be a link to the Video on preload,if not it is also on the following link from the K1200LTs forum:


http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv

But....read this first, altough I may disagree for the fact that heat may not be needed to remove the bearing, sure wasn't the case with the one I removed last winter.And my shop was cold, needed heat to release. But wouldn't be the first time I disagree with B... on other forums.
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=519256#post519256
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 07:54 PM   #35
skwatr
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Palmetto,FL
Oddometer: 27
96669, thanks for the post and links. Mucho helpfull as I am now changing the tapered roller bearing, and replacing the main spars in the boat at the same time.

definitely not planned this way.

chasing down these links are a big time eater and I appreciate them.
skwatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #36
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,598
I like to flush my final drive with ATF when I change oil. Also, I perform the FD oil change cold with all the junk settled to the bottom of the FD case.

You'll get a nice clean FD cavity that way before adding fresh oil.

Some have asked, "What about the ATF residue that remains after the flush?"

Answer? "What about it?"
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2012, 09:57 PM   #37
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by skwatr View Post
96669, thanks for the post and links. Mucho helpfull as I am now changing the tapered roller bearing, and replacing the main spars in the boat at the same time.

definitely not planned this way.

chasing down these links are a big time eater and I appreciate them.
No problem....not fun getting lost in all the rethoric about them drives. I have been there. Try googleing them someday if you have time, you'll see. Waaay more internet discussions,and worries, about them than actual facts. Not a lot on rebuilds. Much simpler doing it with proper show & tell which BTW isn't really out there altough there is also a pretty long winded video on YouTube about dismantling, the "coming soon" one on rebuild/preload isn't there yet.It has been a while and NOT YET.

I also had a hard time finding them links again yesterday.That's good....I needed them, and some updated info came up over what I studied last year.

Not many have gone into the "gear tooth contact" patterns and backlash, my manual isn't too clear on that one and if required when replacing the tapered bearing, seems to be but I may not be reading it correctly. I'll doublecheck on that but may not be for a few days. If you find out anything about that,and if required, I'll listen and dig up some more, I think I know where to go for that.

But....make up your own mind on all that and take a few pics when you are up to rigging for the preload, I'd like to see your rigging. Darn...talking like the seagoing person I am....!Tooling & tools....!
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 03:29 AM   #38
OzRob
Studly Adventurer
 
OzRob's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Australia, Snowy mountains NSW
Oddometer: 673
Nice Post,
My FD on my R1100GS has done 317000km....no issues original bearings....changed the Crown seal twice,
You can change the seal on the side of the road, you just need to lay the bike on it's side, so the oil will not drain out,
You can lever the seal out with a screw driver or the can opener on your Leatherman.
Tap the new one in and away you go....
Make sure you use genuine BMW seal, as it has slotted grooves in the main seal lip which push the dust away from the sealing surface....(just like the gearbox seals which are directional for the shaft rotation)
I tried a non OEM seal once...lasted about three weeks before it leaked...I replaced it with a OEM which has been in for around 100,000 km.
OzRob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 11:53 AM   #39
skwatr
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Palmetto,FL
Oddometer: 27
FD bearings changed! put her back together, lubed and torqued. Hit the starter, slow to turn as shes been in the shop for a while. A little choke and ready for test ride. Put the dogs in the house and grabbed the brain bucket.

stuck in neutral. WTF?

pulled starter cover and inspecting flywheel for oil. maybe slave cylinder?

troop moral low.

but the boat spars look good,
skwatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:25 PM   #40
FatChance
Road Captain
 
FatChance's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Durango, Colorado, USA
Oddometer: 10,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by skwatr View Post
FD bearings changed! put her back together, lubed and torqued. Hit the starter, slow to turn as shes been in the shop for a while. A little choke and ready for test ride. Put the dogs in the house and grabbed the brain bucket.

stuck in neutral. WTF?

pulled starter cover and inspecting flywheel for oil. maybe slave cylinder?

troop moral low.
When you say "stuck in neutral", do you mean that you can shift into first but the bike will not move as if it is in neutral or will it actually not shift out of neutral into any of the other gears? Can we assume the clutch and transmission worked fine before you started working on the FD?

I don't know what other things you might have worked on that could cause those symptoms, but here is one possibility. Are you positive the splined FD input shaft was properly put into the female driveshaft end when you reinstalled the FD? I have heard of an un-named someone who once was in too much of a hurry to reinstall a FD late one night. The input shaft deflected because it was not properly aligned and did not engage the driveshaft as it was pushed in during the installation. It was not noticed until it was ready for its test ride. It is physically possible (easy, in fact) to put it together with the driveshaft disconnected from the FD input shaft with the driveshaft sitting on top of the input shaft. It then acts exactly as if it were in neutral even though it was in first. That person was appropriately embarrassed but it was an easy fix that taught yet one more shade-tree mechanic a lesson about doing it one step at a time and checking each step along the way...
__________________
Pain in the Butte Ranch
Durango, Colorado

- Calculated risk or forbidden fruit?

FatChance screwed with this post 10-22-2012 at 01:52 PM
FatChance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #41
Jim Moore
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jim Moore's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Jax, FL
Oddometer: 13,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
I have heard of an un-named someone who once was in too much of a hurry to reinstall a FD late one night. The input shaft slipped down and did not engage the driveshaft during the installation and it was not noticed until it was ready for its test ride. It is possible to put it together with the driveshaft disconnected to the FD input shaft. It then acts exactly as if it were in neutral even though it was in first. That person was appropriately embarrassed but it was an easy fix that taught yet one more shade-tree mechanic a lesson...
I've never done that! (What, do you live in my garage or something?)
__________________
Jim Moore
Jax, FL

Pay the lady, PirateJohn, you thieving piece of garbage.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
Jim Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:38 PM   #42
FatChance
Road Captain
 
FatChance's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Durango, Colorado, USA
Oddometer: 10,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
I've never done that! (What, do you live in my garage or something?)
Maybe you know "someone" who has done that too?
__________________
Pain in the Butte Ranch
Durango, Colorado

- Calculated risk or forbidden fruit?

FatChance screwed with this post 10-22-2012 at 01:51 PM
FatChance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 PM   #43
skwatr
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Palmetto,FL
Oddometer: 27
It will not shift out of neutral. the green neutral light stays on. i can move the shifter up and down but it will not go into any gears.

Yes it is possible to install FD with shaft misaligned. The shaft is keyed so it only goes inn one way. Yes I put grease on the splined shaft and got it in the hole. A little back and forth rotating and it slide right inn.

Time permitting im going after the clutch slave cylinder. I have never looked at it and should.

I find it ironic that the shifting was working fine before the FD job? Not that stranger stuff hasn't gone down like this with everything I touch.
skwatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 02:11 PM   #44
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by skwatr View Post
I find it ironic that the shifting was working fine before the FD job? Not that stranger stuff hasn't gone down like this with everything I touch.
You are a boat guy...! For a little Zen on that read Tristan Jones on...... Synchronicity.
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2012, 02:16 PM   #45
FatChance
Road Captain
 
FatChance's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Durango, Colorado, USA
Oddometer: 10,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by skwatr View Post
I find it ironic that the shifting was working fine before the FD job?
Indeed.
__________________
Pain in the Butte Ranch
Durango, Colorado

- Calculated risk or forbidden fruit?
FatChance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014