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Old 05-23-2005, 02:01 PM   #1
rtrider OP
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12GS Wheel wobble

Rode a my brothers 12GS - noticed immediately that upon deceleration (throttle roll off with no brakes) the bike felt like it was shimmying or ocillating a bit.
threw it on the centerstand and there is play in the rear wheel - grabbing it anywhere you can move it easily. Measured at the outside of the tire, the lateral movement is about 1/2 a centimeter. No difference if rear brake applied or not. Bike has 9500 miles.

I checked the bolts and they're tight. Bearings shot? Ok to ride 45 miles to dealer or should we have them pick it up? I figure it probably is since I'm sure the problem has been creeping up on him.

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Old 05-23-2005, 03:15 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtrider
...Measured at the outside of the tire, the lateral movement is about 1/2 a centimeter...
Man, that's a lot of play. Can you tell where it occurs? Is it in the swingarm bearings or the rear drive bearings? Either way, I'd be hesitant to ride it.
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Old 05-23-2005, 03:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtrider
Rode a buddy's 12GS - noticed immediately that upon deceleration (throttle roll off with no brakes) the bike felt like it was shimmying or ocillating a bit.
threw it on the centerstand and there is play in the rear wheel - grabbing it anywhere you can move it easily. Measured at the outside of the tire, the lateral movement is about 1/2 a centimeter. No difference if rear brake applied or not. Bike has 9500 miles.

I checked the bolts and they're tight. Bearings shot? Ok to ride 45 miles to dealer or should we have them pick it up? I figure it probably is since I'm sure the problem has been creeping up on him.

CAUTION!!! The 1200GS has only one bolt holding the final drive on. Mine came out and wiped out the spokes on the right side. Dealer told me that it may start a BMW recall. The stud is a Torx head that can be seen looking through the spokes, their is a plastic cover over the nut so you cannot see it from the right of the bike. They have re-done mine, you should have no lateral movement. Check the thread "check your 1200GS final drive bolt" for pic's of the bolt location.
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Old 05-23-2005, 03:43 PM   #4
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Wow! I just replied to a thread on Horizon Unlimited, someone has an oil-leak and wierd noises coming from his rear-end. Have to question BMW's engineering considering all the negative feedback i've heared so far.
...I'm liking my old "89GS more and more
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Old 05-23-2005, 04:02 PM   #5
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as far as i can tell the swing arm is tight - final drive doesnt budge. The wheel & brake rotor and the caliper all move together. looking in the center hole, i can see the wheel move around the axle.
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Old 05-23-2005, 04:15 PM   #6
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i checked the bolt per the "check your bolt" thread and it was tight.

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Old 05-23-2005, 09:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtrider
i checked the bolt per the "check your bolt" thread and it was tight.

Is the drive flange moving on the (hollow) axle? If yes, that circlip (#1) keeps the wheel from leaving the bike.
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Old 05-24-2005, 06:10 PM   #8
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The flange moves around the axel. I tried to get shots of that but although clearly visible to the eye, i couldnt hold the relative position of the camera steady enough to get a picture
It was tough to hold the camera steady and move the wheel at the same time...but take a look at the pics to get an idea of travel. It seems almost as if the only thing holding the rear wheel on is the brake caliper assembly holding on to the brake disc.

zooming in on this angle taken from the right rear through the mudflap:

you can see this much play:


hears a few of the disc's travel in the brake caliper:


and in the final two you can see the travel of the brake caliper - note the travel of the brake line relative to the bolt where the banjo bolt attaches to the brake line.




all pics here:
http://jkhouw.smugmug.com/gallery/553378/1

any thoughts?
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Old 05-25-2005, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azabeemerboy
CAUTION!!! The 1200GS has only one bolt holding the final drive on. Mine came out and wiped out the spokes on the right side. Dealer told me that it may start a BMW recall. The stud is a Torx head that can be seen looking through the spokes, their is a plastic cover over the nut so you cannot see it from the right of the bike. They have re-done mine, you should have no lateral movement. Check the thread "check your 1200GS final drive bolt" for pic's of the bolt location.
Yeah, what he said.

I had the the final drive replaced and the bolt problem. Double whammy!

Tech Rep at Irv Seaver BMW in Orange, CA told me today that the torque for the bolt should be 20 lbs/ft higher than previously published. Also loc tite should be applied, according to BMW rep.

In my opinion a recall is very likely, as the bolt is not mechanically secured once it becomes loose.

Paul

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read here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ght=check+bolt
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwebac
Quote:
CAUTION!!! The 1200GS has only one bolt holding the final drive on. Mine came out and wiped out the spokes on the right side. Dealer told me that it may start a BMW recall. The stud is a Torx head that can be seen looking through the spokes, their is a plastic cover over the nut so you cannot see it from the right of the bike. They have re-done mine, you should have no lateral movement. Check the thread "check your 1200GS final drive bolt" for pic's of the bolt location
Yeah, what he said.

I had the the final drive replaced and the bolt problem. Double whammy!

Tech Rep at Irv Seaver BMW in Orange, CA told me today that the torque for the bolt should be 20 lbs/ft higher than previously published. Also loc tite should be applied, according to BMW rep.

In my opinion a recall is very likely, as the bolt is not mechanically secured once it becomes loose.

Paul

www.natureseeker.com

read here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ght=check+bolt
I read that thread - i thought that was referring to the bolt in this picture to the left (front) of the brake disk parallel to the dashed line? As far as i can tell that bolt is tight. It seems to me if the clip failed that the dashed line is pointing to, would this give the symptoms we are seeing.



in any event, got access to a truck for this friday and will bring to the dealer to see what they have to say.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:18 AM   #11
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The bolt that comes loose is the Torx head that you see to the left. On the other side of the frame you will see a plastic cover and the nut is located under that.
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Old 05-27-2005, 05:33 PM   #12
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dropped it off at the dealer - he was shocked at how much play there was. Thinks it is a bearing - although there is no 'rough' spots or noises when you spin the wheel.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:03 PM   #13
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Update on wheel wobble.
Original problem - When measured at the exterior of the tire there was between .5 and 1 centimeter of wheel play (wobbled on every axis).

Dealer was advised by bmw to replace the flange below (the one the tire bolts onto) and that reduced the free play by 50% but still way too much. (my theory here is that that part was damaged by continued use before free play was noticed, so replacing it eliminated some of the problem)

Dealer called bmw and was authorized to get an entirely new rear end. That fixed the problem.



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Old 07-31-2005, 07:01 AM   #14
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1200GS rear wheel wobble problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtrider
Update on wheel wobble.
Original problem - When measured at the exterior of the tire there was between .5 and 1 centimeter of wheel play (wobbled on every axis).

Dealer was advised by bmw to replace the flange below (the one the tire bolts onto) and that reduced the free play by 50% but still way too much. (my theory here is that that part was damaged by continued use before free play was noticed, so replacing it eliminated some of the problem)

Dealer called bmw and was authorized to get an entirely new rear end. That fixed the problem.



FYI: several days ago another R1200GS rider shows up with monster handling problems,,,bike vibrating and hair raising oscillations at speeds approaching 100mph....up on the centerstand,,, a quick check revealed both front and rear wheels way out of true,,,similar to the previous 1200GSs,,,,with one major exception.....

this was the third rear end on this bike within 12,000miles and several months of ownership!!!!!...he too complained of the wheel wobbling and having similar excessive lateral end play in a similar range.... .5-1mm the endplay at the hollow output shaft....was .5mm/.020 when cold and the greatest when hot....i confirmed that it did feel excessive,,,,he also mentioned that the rear brake pads wore out within 1000 miles,,,hmmmmnnn

another quick look,,,,,i noticed that there was a distinct wobble to the entire assy.....disc carrier/disc/rim...out with the dial indicator,,and sure enough all hi and low points were in a distinct plane....

NOTE: the loose end play will cause the wheel to wobble on all axis,,,,an out of round bearing/output shaft will create its own specific orbit ....

off with the wheel and on to check the lug bolt surfaces,,,they too correlated with the other measurements.....it was then that i realized that the entire hollow shaft was out of true...it was running.002-.003'' out of round at the spot in the above picture with the #1 dotted line....which correlated with .005'' at the studs,,,,,.020'' at the disc and .080'' at the rims edge

a quick call to our BMW dealer,got the fellow an immediate appointment,,,the fourth new rear end was installed,,,,similar readouts,,,,i trued the wheels ..+/- .010 front +/-.015 rear.....the fifth rear end was borrowed out of a new bike and had half the runout problems,,,,,test ride revealed a remarkable improvement....still...the jury is out....i suspect the problem has to do with the concentricity of the the inner bearing/hollow shaft....the inner bearing causes the shaft to have its own .002'' orbit....which puts the disc in orbit as well as the wheel,,,,this will cause numerous problems,,,handling,,,,premature tire and disc/disc pad wear etc...the wheels being out of wack exacerbates the problem.....i could true the rim on the bike ,,BUT you'd still have a hub/disc that wobble.....

just got back from a mini road trip and the fellow e-mailed the following excerpt...

[Woody,

I rode 1060 miles yesterday so have some feedback.

The wheels made a great difference, thanks. The bike is much more
stable. I notice this particularly when behind trucks. When buffetted
previously the bike could never make up it's mind where to go next. Now it is
straight, firm and solid.

Generally I notice the bikes behaviour is much more stable and
consistant. The difference is clear and noticable. So the answer to all the
guys on advrider with the buffeting and wobble problem is to have their
wheels straightened.

As for the "bent" shaft. Clearly the problem remains. After 500 miles
of my ride yeaterday, without hardly using the back brake, there was a
conciderable amount of brake liner dust on my back wheel. When I put the
bike on the center stand, the disc wobbbles a little. And when warm the
back wheel is clearly loose.]

PS,,,this is a DIFFERENT problem from that of having the anchoring bolt come loose...and far more expensive to repair,,,,i suspect this bolt may come loose as a byproduct of the oscillations caused by the out of round rear axle assy

NOTE:,,,to check your wheels ,,,just put your bike on the centerstand,,,start the motor slowly engage 1st gear and observe your rear wheel,,,it should spin fairly true,,,you will definitely notice if the wheel wobbles back and forth...it is that obvious!!!,,,,turn off engine,,,get someone to pushdown on rear end to raise front end,,,grab wheel and spin,,,,again the tire should spin nice and true,,,,if it wobbles left and right you need to get it trued/or replaced with a truer version,,,,there is a distinct difference in your wheels running out +/- .015'' and those that are at or greater than the oem spec of +/-.060''

woody's wheel works screwed with this post 08-01-2005 at 10:33 PM
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