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Old 07-18-2012, 06:36 AM   #16
jetjackson
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I think, as mentioned above, that you would need to establish what the ice pack looks like and whether it can be ridden.

If for all intents and purposes it looks exactly the same as this.



Then I think that you could write it off as impossible. Unless you are a master at this -



But even then you would need a vehicle support team.

Has it been done by vehicle before?
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #17
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Actually, I think those rocks are smaller and rounder than the pack ice would be. If you haven't seen the TopGear Artic Special you may want to watch it. They get stuck in the kraggy ice a couple times. It's also worth mentioning that the snow is deeper in the kraggy ice, covering up the obstacles. The thing is they also had patches where it was (comparatively) smooth. This is where I'm unsure if I'm getting a representative view of the ice. Other YouTube items from Mutual of Omaha, etc., also show Alaskan sea ice to have smooth sections, however that could just be fast ice. The TopGear things was on the Atlantic side of the Artic. It's also worth noting that TopGear is entertainment-quality, not scientific-quality.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xuare View Post
Actually, I think those rocks are smaller and rounder than the pack ice would be. If you haven't seen the TopGear Artic Special you may want to watch it. They get stuck in the kraggy ice a couple times. It's also worth mentioning that the snow is deeper in the kraggy ice, covering up the obstacles. The thing is they also had patches where it was (comparatively) smooth.
There are places where the ice is relatively smooth - where the pack stays in one cohesive chunk many square miles in area. But anytime the ice is close to a landmass it is subject to strong currents that tend to break it apart then push it back together.

If you've ever been along some of the northern rivers, the ones that will have ice forming 3 or 4 feet thick during a normal winter, and seen how it looks as the ice begins to break up and flow downstream in the spring, piling up occasionally into huge jams - that will give you some idea of what sea ice in that area would be like. The weather, however, would be much, much worse, as springtime brings strong winds due to the temperature changing rather rapidly. The calmest time would be some of the most difficult - early winter, when the sun would not rise above the horizon. It gets light, but only briefly.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:02 AM   #19
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You might be more succesful with a bike like this: http://pal-v.com/the-pal-v-one/
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:24 AM   #20
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You might be more succesful with a bike like this: http://pal-v.com/the-pal-v-one/
But does it have a good heater?
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:00 PM   #21
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There are places where the ice is relatively smooth - where the pack stays in one cohesive chunk many square miles in area. But anytime the ice is close to a landmass it is subject to strong currents that tend to break it apart then push it back together.

If you've ever been along some of the northern rivers, the ones that will have ice forming 3 or 4 feet thick during a normal winter, and seen how it looks as the ice begins to break up and flow downstream in the spring, piling up occasionally into huge jams - that will give you some idea of what sea ice in that area would be like. The weather, however, would be much, much worse, as springtime brings strong winds due to the temperature changing rather rapidly. The calmest time would be some of the most difficult - early winter, when the sun would not rise above the horizon. It gets light, but only briefly.

The goal would be to go before the breakup happens. As it appears, the sea will thaw before the inland Siberian rivers and marsh (due to colder temps and freshwater) so the heading-west works in that regard. Once anything begins to thaw, we have discontinuous ice which will represent enough of a hazard on it's own. The real question is, can the kraggy parts be either circumnavigated, or be dealt with in another reasonable way?

I think it will only be answer by a preliminary trip to AK to experiment with the ice. If the crags are as "small" as Going South's images imply, then it's doable. I think they will be bigger, though, as many of his pictures were not fully frozen areas, which will compact the ice flows more and exacerbate the problem.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:42 AM   #22
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The goal would be to go before the breakup happens.
Apparently you misunderstood my comment. It wasn't meant to imply you would be traveling during breakup (which is one of the worst times to attempt travel in the far north), it was meant to offer a comparison that might be somewhat familiar to you regarding the ice blockages you would encounter. As stated in my original post, "...your imagination cannot possible conjure up the difficulties you would encounter as you've never come even close to what a trip like that would entail." Nothing in your life's experiences has given you a peek at what it would be like, and until you see it firsthand, your imagination is incapable of visualizing it.

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Originally Posted by xuare View Post
If the crags are as "small" as Going South's images imply, then it's doable.
Too bad there's nothing in those photos to give a scale to the ice. In this photo that chunk of ice could be five feet thick.

You can often find ridges of ice 15 feet high or more that you would have to literally carry the bike over. You could probably ride it less than 20% of the distance; the rest you would be pushing it, pulling it, or lifting it - and more often than not - cussing it.

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Originally Posted by xuare View Post
As it appears, the sea will thaw before the inland Siberian rivers and marsh (due to colder temps and freshwater) so the heading-west works in that regard. Once anything begins to thaw, we have discontinuous ice which will represent enough of a hazard on it's own. The real question is, can the kraggy parts be either circumnavigated, or be dealt with in another reasonable way?
If a "reasonable way" includes a helicopter to lift the bike over the rough spots - it will be a piece of cake.

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I think it will only be answer by a preliminary trip to AK to experiment with the ice.
Undoubtedly. Fly into Nome, then take a mail plane flight out to Wales, get some villagers to take you out onto the ice to get a close-up look at what you would be facing. That's probably the only way to really understand what the obstacles would be just to get across to Siberia so you could begin the cross-country phase.

One little consideration you haven't mentioned: Getting an engine started in the extreme temperatures you would encounter. It can be done, given sufficient logistical support. My Gold Wing has two oil pan heaters under the engine that can be plugged in so it will start reliably in well-below-zero temperatures. But you won't be carrying a generator and large quantities of fuel, presumably. Cold-starting an engine only works to a point, and if you were to beat break-up by any margin, you would be traveling when the temperatures prevented getting the engine started without supplemental heat. When I worked at Prudhoe Bay during the winter back in the '70's we left the engines running 24/7, and only shut them off long enough to change the oil every Friday after work. But we had plenty of fuel available.

For a venture of this magnitude you would need so much air support that it would end up looking like a commercial operation. Unless you have unlimited resources, you might consider something a little less challenging, like riding from Prudhoe Bay across the Arctic Coast of Canada to Labrador in January. That would at least alleviate the language barrier that crossing Siberia would entail.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:04 PM   #23
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Thank you, excellent comment. I found another site that put to sea many of my other hopes:

http://www.angusadventures.com/beringstrait.html

Noteworthy items:

1) The sea ice is not fully hard at any particular time, which would make a motorcycle crossing impossible
2) Chukotka is the only Russian state that still requires Soviet-style permissions to enter, cross, etc. While entry into Provideniya is allowed, it seems like you would need a minder or some manner of communication with the state government, which would be difficult

Further, from some of those custom Russian vehicles on Youtube you can see some of the non-permafrost tundra areas aren't rock but essentially ground floating on water. That would be physically impossible to cross without flotation tires and a 3+ wheeled vehicle. If expansive, I don't see a feasible way to cross without a purpose built 4x4 (or 6x6) flotation, amphibious vehicle:
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:54 AM   #24
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Adding some more information. It appears to be traversable, however by foot / CC skis:

http://asksiberia.com/2011/05/dimitri-kieffer-knows-how-to-get-from-uelen-anadyr-chukotka-to-magadan-via-anadyr-kamchatka-far-east-russia/

http://www.google.com/search?q=siberian+tree+line&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

If the "Traversing the sea via ice" section would need to be revamped to include a boat crossing instead, The problem then becomes water saturated ground conditions and the NE Siberian rivers... is there any possible way to cross without them being frozen? Hmmm...
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:29 AM   #25
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There was a French explorer, who wanted to become the first woman to travel solo to the north pole. Soon after setting off in 2004 she vanished, and nothing has been found, that might give a clue, what happened to her.

While it would be nice to sound more supportive, I think what you dream to do, has an extremely high likelyhood of ending in a similar fashion.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #26
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I take solace in knowing that going something like this alone would indeed be foolish, and that I don't possess stereotypical French arrogance or a will to surrender

One other thing to keep in mind, if this becomes both possible and a summer event is that visa's for Russia may be lessened to becoming nil for the 2018 FIFA Tournament...
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:45 AM   #27
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More Info

It appears that INMARSAT has a coverage hole near the Ideterod Trail going to Nome:




This is an additional safety hazard if a SAT phone is used as a mitigation for mishap.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the crossing of rivers, it may be possible using two inflatable pontoons mounted to the bike at the highway pegs and passenger foot pegs. I think the ideal level for flotation will be with the crankcase and transmission just below the waterline. This would be used for a summertime crossing of NE Siberia. Mud will probably be too big an issue during the summer thaw though...

Some tips possibly from http://www.searoader.com. See the image of the KDX. My plan was to row, but powered transit it worth asking about. Tire type / profile will make a difference...

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Old 11-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #28
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I just saw this picture and it reminded me of this thread.


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Old 05-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #29
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Updated information

A few Poles tried this very thing (at least going East towards Anadyr:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...239330&page=58

Further, Colebach suggested a different route with better roads. Based on the map, It can be done to connect Anadyr to Magadan, but it would be really long. Basically, there are some trails that go North to Egvekinot (he recommended a boat, but there are some trails on the map). From there is a "graded road from Egvekinot thru Pevek, Bilibino and Chersky. From Chersky find a barge to take you up the Kolyma River to Seymchan."

I am adding this to the GPX file and recalculating the map. I am not sureif it is possible to get from Provideniya to Egvekinot on a vehicle due to mountains and rivers. However, there is a road going N and then W I found on the new SATNAV data, but part of the images are in winter and the road can't be seen when the map switches to snow covered landscape.

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Old 05-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #30
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How about a 'warm-up' trip first: see, if you can reach the seashore on a completely roadless terrain in winter conditions?

That's no walk in the park, it would be challenging, and potentially very dangerous, too, but at least you'd stay on solid ground, so there might be some sort of hope of a rescue in case of emergency.
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