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Old 07-16-2012, 08:53 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
I'd suggest let her loose on a scooter with training by a professional coach.
What is this scooter fixation? How will a scooter teach her to improve her opratation of a MOTORCYCLE, which is what she WANTS to ride for the dirt roads and 2-lane blacktop around here? She got her license 10 years ago on a MOTORCYCLE, not a scooter.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
Depends what you get I spose and what type of dirt roads are attempted ... maybe a postie bike would fit the bill better... those things will go just about anywhere
That is true! An "underboner" as they are called might be a good choice. They don't have a lot of gears I don't think and aren't as bulky as some motorcycles can be.

Maybe.....eh???. Still needs the refresher course though if she cannot remember her instructions because of time lapses on the bike.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:00 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
Probably nothing except she seemed to be having issues with clutch operation?
That's what she needs to practice, not avoiding the issue by switching to a vehicle with no clutch.

She is not going to improve her operation of the clutch by riding a 2-wheeler that doesn't have one.

She does it fine in a training exercise. The problem is that in actual practice she has fails.

Gotta get her more seat time.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:01 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
What is this scooter fixation? How will a scooter teach her to improve her opratation of a MOTORCYCLE, which is what she WANTS to ride for the dirt roads and 2-lane blacktop around here? She got her license 10 years ago on a MOTORCYCLE, not a scooter.
I know lots of people who have held a motorcycle license for years and still can't ride for shit ... sometimes I'm one of them

If she wants to ride dirt and wants to do it on a regular dirt bike then let her at it and butt out ... stop rescuing her. She will either have to woman up and deal with shit or give it up ... her choice. She is a grown women not a child. Tell her to stop being lil Miss Princess and HTFU

There ... is that better??
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:03 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
What is this scooter fixation? How will a scooter teach her to improve her opratation of a MOTORCYCLE, which is what she WANTS to ride for the dirt roads and 2-lane blacktop around here? She got her license 10 years ago on a MOTORCYCLE, not a scooter.
Well if she never rides except once a week or so, it doesn't matter when she got her license. she lacks skill and experience. Obviously "getting her license 10 years ago" hasn't helped her. You said she is confused about the gears. That is why some of us recommended a scooter. It's not a "fixation". It's a suggestion in what appears to be the absence of a sufficient answer to the problem on your part. You asked for help and started this thread. That is what we are trying to do.. None of us are "there" to see what you are describing to us.

Now, if this "forgetting" that she is experiencing is spilling over into other areas, then it may not be an issue of "skill" at all. Only the two of you would know that though.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:08 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That's what she needs to practice, not avoiding the issue by switching to a vehicle with no clutch.

She is not going to improve her operation of the clutch by riding a 2-wheeler that doesn't have one.

She does it fine in a training exercise. The problem is that in actual practice she has fails.

Gotta get her more seat time.
.

If she has a license....she needs to "GET HERSELF" more seat time. NOT YOU. She knows she sucks in real life situations' which could be anxiety. the truth of the matter is, other drivers don't know this and she needs to know the importance of not endangering others just for the thrill of riding a motorcycle. If she CANNOT handle it in real life situations and perhaps is not willing to take refresher course or classes on handling her anxiety....then she will be AND SHOULD BE restricted to parking lots. You are the one who seems to have a "fixation" with her being on a motorcycle. She may need to switch machines is all some of us are suggesting. She may not "need" to be on a motorcycle at all as a mode of transportation or sport.

I'm just sayin......
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:31 PM   #67
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The she either needs to commit herself to more practice (without your intervention) or there is a "different" problem here after being licensed for so many years. Renewing the license without getting the practice is a recipe for disaster for anyone involved.

By the way, you never mentioned her gear before; just her injuries. That is why I said that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:51 AM   #68
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Put a Rekluse clutch in if one is available.. it will eliminate one variable and makes the dirt a lot easier. It doesnt sound like she has had a lot of issues with clutch control but it might make her feel just a bit more comfortable and that could free up her obvious over thinking. I dont think she is having a problem with not thinking.. I think she is trying to over analyze everything because she is so uncomfortable on the bike?? But what do I know, never been married and notoriously wrong about women
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:29 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
My wife is (or was) athletic, but not in motorsports. She was the women's 3.5 Doubles league champion in our local tennis association, taking a couple of hours off from work to show up in her work clothes to play matches against country club ladies who played all day several days a week, and then she would go back to work while they went for lunch or cocktails.

She was also a lap swimmer. She backed off on swimming and tennis due to shoulder problems. She also was a skier until she had knee surgery, but was a permanent intermediate. At work she is President, founder and majority owner of a "large small business" with around 150 employees that's open 24/7. I am a minority owner who bought some shares after we were married, and I work part time in her office, so I work for her; you might say she's my boss.

She works out with a personal trainer twice a week and does yoga classes two or even three times a week. She can do a lot of that per a pre-set schedule, at night or when it's raining, no matter the temperature. She isn't going to go riding like that. Someone mentioned it, not sure why, but no though I have done yoga, I don't do it with her, she is too advanced. I don't do well in the groups she participates in.

She has plenty of perseverance, she got back on and rode after her dirt crash. Before that, what started the whole thing was that she also asked me to save the XT for her and not leave it to one of our sons (who rides and will get a different bike anyway) after I pass on. I agree she needs more seat time, the problem is how to get it with her work schedule. And if it's not fun for her, she's not going to do it. That's why it isn't realistic that she would circle a parking lot for hours. BTDT in MSF.

Mainly she seems to have a hard time translating the principles of a training exercise into actual application in practice. As I mentioned, I compare it to somebody who can hit a bucket of balls off the mat at the range just fine, but then doesn't know what to do with club selection, a lie, a slope, obstruction etc. when they go out on the course. She can drive a clutch car just fine, but struggles with a motorcycle clutch.

She sees me ride and says that I am "one with the bike". She's not and does different tasks in a step-wise manner as separate operations. Like we stop together; I ask if she's ready to go, she say "Yes" but only after I'm rolling does she start to hunt for 1st because she stopped in 4th. (Sometimes I roll forward just a few feet as a 'false start' to see if she's really ready.) She has been reminded many times that if it's a routine stop, to work down through the gears as she decelerates so she'll be in 1st by the time she stops.

Her way of doing that is to make a gear change, coast 100 yards, make another one, coast another 100 yards, etc. If she "remembers" to work down through the gears while decelerating, it means she coasts in from 1/4 mile out. But if I ask her to keep up pace a little closer to the stop and then use brakes, she "forgets" to work down through the gears and ends up stopped in 3rd, 4th or 5th. In a clutch car with a traditional H-pattern, you can do that and then go directly to neutral, or 1st, whatever you want.

Some people say she needs more instruction and isn't ready to ride even ride on a road, but then others say that if I give her guidance in line or speed that I am doing it for her and she'll never learn. I think some are merely projecting the dynamics of their own relationships onto ours.
I don't mean to be disrespectful or insulting so you have to forgive my rudeness, but this isn't a physical issue. Your wife is obviously very qualified physically. This is a mental issue and she just doesn't "get it." In my opinion, she never will and the risks involved are too great to "play/practice" this skill set until she does. You could ride on your own property for an extended period until she finally memorizes the sequences required, but to "practice" on a dirt road or in traffic could be lethal.

I have worked with a few people that are like this; not many, but some just never make the mental connections and in the case of riding, it's lethal. My best friend bought a Honda Shadow, many years ago, and he tried, but never managed to learn. Smart guy, very accomplished, but just couldn't do it, and decided without my suggesting that bikes just weren't for him.

Another comparison might be riding a horse and the skill set that goes with that sport requires a certain type of person. There is a saying in the western riding world that goes, "There are too many good horses in the world to waste time on a bad one." You may be in that group and the risks are just too high. Might be time to move on. I realize as I say this, that you want to share your passion for riding with your partner/wife, but may be risking both your safety and health. Your call...
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:26 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
...My wife has no motorcycle experience but as a teenager did drive a car with a MT (so there is that). She is type-A, over-confident, and loves to speed everywhere. The worst thing is she has low situation awareness while driving, but doesn't seem to realize it.
Not aware that she's not aware is kind of a tautology, eh?

The one good thing about her (trying to) learn to ride is that it will in all likelihood improve her awareness. A car makes it easy to be reactive rather than proactive. Don't notice that the corner has a little gravel in it until you're in the gravel? No problem, just swerve more. A REALLY unaware driver may never realize there even was gravel, just that there was something wrong with the car, she had to steer more and the tires made a funny noise, maybe she ought to have the dealer check what's wrong with the tires.

Learning to ride back in 2004 (it was 8 years ago, nor 10 as I claimed earlier) DID greatly improve my wife's car driving. So it was worth it just for that. In our case her learning to ride was NOT about us wanting to ride together. It was that she wanted to see and experience all this great stuff I was always talking about.
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viverrid screwed with this post 07-17-2012 at 08:13 AM
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:46 AM   #71
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I went through the exact same thing. I tried to teach my wife, and she never got comfortable. Every time she crashed off road we had to start from square one again. She would also just have brain farts about the basic operation of the bike. In the end I had much less patience than you. I told her the only way to get better is to stick with it. In the end we sold her bike a got her a little Honda rancher automatic. This solved the off road riding. As for the Street, it's just not going to happen. She is just too innatentive. Her exact words were "I don't want to learn to ride on the street, you have to pay to much attention to everything".

This whole episode really got me thinking of the diffetences between men and women. There was a complete disconnect between things being hard when you start and sticking with it and it getting easier. All she kept saying is that "it's easy for you, you don't understand". My response was do you think I was born knowing how to do this? I had to learn at some point. Ok rant over.

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Old 07-17-2012, 07:52 AM   #72
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I just read this thread, one question:

Did you marry my girlfriend's twin sister?

Seriously though, same problems. Mine took the MSF course and got her license. She has a 250 Ninja, I bought her a 'scratch-and-dent special' knowing it was going to get dropped a few times.

Here's the killer. She is an excellent rider, as long as she isn't on a public road.

On her TTR125 she can wheelie over branches, make WFO muddy hill climbs as long as it's not too technical, slide the back end around and clutch it out of a turn, etc. Nothing like amateur motocross level, but play-riding level.

On her ninja, at state parks and parking lots, again she's a good rider. Uphill starts in gravel, very tight figure 8's, excellent panic braking skills. Her figure 8's are tighter than mine, and I've been riding since I was a kid. She makes almost the whole turn at full lock by playing with the clutch and rear brake. No idea how, I can't do it.

Put her on the road, she's done. Last time she first went left out of the driveway. Missed the actual driveway and started out uphill from a drainage ditch. Went about 1/8 of a mile and decided the road was too scary. Pulled in my cousin's driveway, turned around on wet grass on the side of a hill, through another drainage ditch, and back on the road. Took a break in the front yard and wanted to try again. Went the other way and decided she wanted to turn around but dad's driveway wasn't big enough. It's paved and big enough to back a semi in. Went to the next driveway, again gravel, and took every bit of 40' of yard to turn around. 20 minutes later she was doing tight u turns in the hay field, same bike.

How in the heck can you ride a ninja 250 through wet grass, drainage ditches, and gravel, but not on pavement? At the same time, there's a straight section at the park where she normally gets the bike up to 50 or 60, but on the real road she won't break 30.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:01 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
Learning to ride back in 2004 (it was 8 years ago, nor 10 as I claimed earlier) DID greatly improve my wife's car driving. So it was worth it just for that. In our case her learning to ride was NOT about us wanting to ride together. It was that she wanted to see and experience all this great stuff I was always talking about.

Well, maybe it's as simple as you not talking about it, then! ha....Perhaps she will stop on her own if she concludes it's not such a big deal to you afterall.. she may have wanted to do this because it seemed very important and enjoyable to "you". Doesn't mean she should keep trying without proper instruction.

I agree that until she gets the sequence in her head, she should not be in traffic. She can learn that on a private road away from potential accidents with you or someone else talking her through and then letting her do it on her own. I know that when you take the skills test here (I was there when my husband took his), they tell you exactly what they want you to do and in what order. The advantage of doing it like "that" on a private road is that you can make on the spot corrections. I know you say she does the practice just fine. If that is really the case, then it is probably anxiety. Some folks just don't do well on test.

She really needs to consider the safety of others in regard to this and not just her (or your) desire for her to ride a "motorcycle". There are all kinds of ways of getting around and having fun while doing it without endangering others. If she has a memory relapse every time she is in a real life situation...she clearly needs "some other" mode of getting around or having fun that is less complicated for her and less risky for others.

I mean really, in your current condition...,,do either of you really need this kind of stress on top of it?? What's the deal? There are lots of ways to spend your remaining time together without it turning into a "thing".....isn't there?
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:09 AM   #74
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So if you have all the answers, why the thread?




Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That's what she needs to practice, not avoiding the issue by switching to a vehicle with no clutch.

She is not going to improve her operation of the clutch by riding a 2-wheeler that doesn't have one.

She does it fine in a training exercise. The problem is that in actual practice she has fails.

Gotta get her more seat time.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:22 AM   #75
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So if you have all the answers, why the thread?

Maybe he just came to that conclusion of more seat time a few post back.

But it still needs to be "her" responsibility to practice on her own or with an proper instructor, move to a less complicated bike (scooter, even a Maxi scooter) if she wants to be able to go on the highways without having brain freezes about gear sequence, etc; (forget about the dirt), or park the thing and get aquainted with "Pat and Turner"; pat her feet on the concrete and turn the corners THAT way!
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