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Old 08-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #76
Shocktower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Italian manufacturers were using Nikasil lined motors as long ago as the late 70s.
Ok, but most of us, live in the USA, most of our 2 stroke bikes being tuned are Japanese
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Italian manufacturers were using Nikasil lined motors as long ago as the late 70s.
and which italian 2t motor from the 70's was anyone porting? minarelli? malagutti? vespa? beta? i don't even know if they're nikasil, never had any of them open to see. give me a break, we're not talking about tuning moped motors here.. nikasil has nothing to do with it. you can't back up ANY of your statements with real world examples.. you were just talking out your ass, and i called you out on it.. then you tried to flip it around on me, like you knew what was what. which you don't.
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stainlesscycle screwed with this post 08-05-2012 at 12:03 PM
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post

The motor with .5mm squish was used successfully in a UK classic competition series a few years back, and there is no reason to expect any Nikasil motor with a similar bore size, wouldnt also work well.

"Hack Job" refers to "tuning" work carried out by people without much understanding of even the basics of 2T engine design and modification, that involve removing metal which in many cases will result in parts in real terms being destroyed, as any possible gains are likely to be at WOT throttle settings, and will mean in some cases the only option will be to replace the modified items.

i should have known you're a trials guy.

your real world has nothing to do with 99.99% of everyone else's real world. you have no understanding of WOT and racing apparently. your 'reliability' is make sure motor runs great for 3 minutes, then let it cool down at idle. you still have not told me what motor with .5 squish, was run in "UK classic competition series a few years back" which sounds suspiciously like 'i have a girlfriend in canada' . in the 'real world' where most people who race motorcycles reside, wot is a real factor, not some temporary blip on the radar. a good bit of racing is going faster, holding the throttle wot longer than the other guy. trials is not. i got nothing against trials, i totally respect the sport, have even competed in it, but racing it is most definitely not. .5mm squish and wot is not gonna end up pretty.
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stainlesscycle screwed with this post 08-05-2012 at 12:27 PM
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:44 PM   #79
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Google Garys of course can ride badly tuned air cooled 2T bikes at WOT throttle settings pretty much all the time! Unfortunately while this is something thats quite possible on chat forums, it doesnt tend to work out in the real world that well.

Strangely good riders on bog stock bikes always seem to beat the GG types, as bikes with little or no mid or bottom end power, as a result of hacked tuning jobs are very difficult to ride, and in most cases slower than stockers.

Like it or not the factorys did a pretty good job on designing most 2T motors, and going ahead with crude hack job tuning, before making any sort of attempt to improve basic areas like squish clearances, and less than perfect intake and exhaust systems, will 9 time out of 10 mean a bike which is more difficult to ride and slower than stock.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:51 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stainlesscycle View Post
and which italian 2t motor from the 70's was anyone porting? minarelli? malagutti? vespa? beta? i don't even know if they're nikasil, never had any of them open to see. give me a break, we're not talking about tuning moped motors here.. nikasil has nothing to do with it. you can't back up ANY of your statements with real world examples.. you were just talking out your ass, and i called you out on it.. then you tried to flip it around on me, like you knew what was what. which you don't.
"Porting" of motors by people that in general dont have much idea of what they are doing, seems to be something thats very common in the US, and I think has much more to do with making money than improving performance in any way.

In terms of tuning moped motors, the Dutch guys who were responsible for work on Kriedlers in the 60/70s certainly seemed to get very impressive results. Its a basic fact of engineering that Nikasil cylinders improve heat transfer, and allow tighter bore clearances, which means more power and greater reliability.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktower View Post
Ok, but most of us, live in the USA, most of our 2 stroke bikes being tuned are Japanese
Thats taken as read............but stainless doesnt seem to understand air cooled 2T motors with Nikasil cylinders have been around outside of the US for some time, and respond very differently to alteration than bikes which are still running dino iron liners.
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:59 PM   #82
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Never ported a Nikasil barrel in the 70's. However, I "specialized" in porting hard chrome bores like Zundapp used. You had to be careful to keep the chrome from peeling at the edge of the port. 99.99% of the time if a client had chrome bore was that damaged we got LA Sleeve to make a cast iron liner. Freeze the liner and heat the barrel and get it straight as it goes in or you are F'ed (nerve wracking). I would go in and grind to match the liner to the barrel after it was set and before it got the final bore.
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:52 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Thats taken as read............but stainless doesnt seem to understand air cooled 2T motors with Nikasil cylinders have been around outside of the US for some time, and respond very differently to alteration than bikes which are still running dino iron liners.
i never said i didnt understand there were nikasil liners. i just wanted you to point one out. from the 70's. in a 2stroke. you have not answered that question. i have a feeling i will wait a long time.
you still have not mentioned which motor you ran at .5mm squish. i think i will wait a long time for that answer also.

i don't believe i ever mentioned what porting i do to a motor, i only pointed out your errors.
i also never mentioned charging anyone anything for motors, nor did i claim to port anyone else's motors. hell i never mentioned even porting my own motors. maybe i do needlepoint for a living, and just like to argue with internet retards. you have made quite a few assumptions, instantly assuming that anyone that does anything that is not 'your way' is wrong. i can tell you this, i have never, and will never, replace head and base gaskets with high temp silicone. nor will i ever end up with a .5mm squish.

i did post a link to a site which, if you read, involves absolutely no measuring on your part. you send the solder, he does the measurements. just because you are not familiar with it doesn't mean it doesn't work, and it's a hack job. you just assume because he charges, that he does bad work, and is just in it for the money. in fact it appears to me that you seem to believe everyone who works on motors is just in it for the money.

you mention "feel that they can do better than the factories who designed and made the bikes they "modify" and again "Like it or not the factorys did a pretty good job on designing most 2T motors" yet you recommend removing the gaskets and replacing them with silicone. sounds to me like you're modifying what the factory did a pretty good job of.

either way, it's obvious you're a troll, and i took the bait. since i already took the bait might as well continue, and entertain myself.
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stainlesscycle screwed with this post 08-05-2012 at 04:28 PM
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #84
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He's one of those stainless. It's an impossible task. In my experience your only reward will be seeing him in the not too distant future using your points like he came up with them years back. Like none of us have a memory!?!

Don't forget that we do it because we can. Most people can't so they think you shouldn't be able to do it either.

True story that has happened many times over in one form or another to some of us I am sure: He's riding over his head and is a dangerous passer! But I lapped you THREE times!?! And your like trying to get around a football bouncing down the track! Some people can't get a clue. Hang out with us fun inmates stainlesscycle.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #85
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As you seem to firmly believe that modifications that cost next to nothing to do and actually work very well in real world conditions, dont work, yet are quite unable to outline why this would be so, is there any real point in providing exact details of specifics on here?

You suggest alterations done by myself are of little value and wont work, yet post links to a site whose owner offers to carry out very critical and precise machining work on cylinder heads on the basis of pieces of solder sent through the post, who is also offering carb alterations first carried out by someone in the UK during the 1920s. This sort of thing is certainly reflective of what I would call a "hack job" which involves the distinct possibility of parts being ruined, by someone eager to make quick $$$$$.

As to replacing gaskets with silicone, again this is something that works very well, and provides a way in many cases of avoiding the need to mess around with solder and paying for a hack job which may result in a need for a new cylinder head. And as to my being a troll, its you who seems to be a Google Gary and able to criticise modifications which have been tried and tested in real world conditions, and merely due to details of this type of mod not being available to you on Google, you suggest they wont work!
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:11 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
He's one of those stainless. It's an impossible task. In my experience your only reward will be seeing him in the not too distant future using your points like he came up with them years back. Like none of us have a memory!?!

Don't forget that we do it because we can. Most people can't so they think you shouldn't be able to do it either.

True story that has happened many times over in one form or another to some of us I am sure: He's riding over his head and is a dangerous passer! But I lapped you THREE times!?! And your like trying to get around a football bouncing down the track! Some people can't get a clue. Hang out with us fun inmates stainlesscycle.
Sorry other than attacking the fact that in many cases removing head and base gaskets on 2T air cooled motors provides a very simple way of closing up wide factory squish clearances, I didnt notice stainless actually had provided anything helpful to this thread at all? Personally I wouldnt be going out of my way to repeat his criticisms, as I know what I have outlined does actually work quite well.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:48 PM   #87
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:13 AM   #88
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Why dont you provide your favoured method of adjusting squish clearance shocktower? All we have at the moment is what I have suggested, and a link to someone offering to do the work mail order.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:18 AM   #89
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from another thread today - regarding suspension tuning


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Doing it yourself very often works out better than paying a so called professional a lot of money for a hack job, so is well worth a try for anyone who is confident of their workmanship.

so you just refuse to pay anyone to do anything, because apparently your skills are vastly superior to anyone who actually charges money for their services. did you ever think that perhaps there are people who know more than you, and charge for that service? thinking that you can do a better job with suspension revalving and motor tuning than someone who actually does it for a living? that's just moronic. sounds to me like either you never gave anyone else a chance, or got burned badly in the past, or just have some massive ego that you're more skilled than all others combined. i'm pretty damn sure it's the latter. not to say the skilled can't do it themselves, but you've proven time and time again, you are not that skilled individual.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:34 AM   #90
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I just wanna see "Real world conditions of PROVEN success" with detailed hi rez video and pics when Twin shocker jerks all the gaskets out of a air cooled RD 350 and gives it a few squirts of RTV silicone instead.

Get her up around 160 PSI compression, tighten down those 4 little head nuts as hard as he wants, enter a 4 hour endurance race, and pin the throttle up to red line for about 2 total hours of the race !

Proof is in pics and video........not theory. Trophys dont lie, but internet advisors do.

As to the "So called experts" Twin shocker is so strongly against, if they truely are a expert at what they do, how do you think they attained that status ? By argueing on the internet ? By using outdated and neanderthal supplys and methods ?

They became experts by applying technology, sometimes trial and error, somtimes through science and engineering, but allways willing to realize when things didnt work, its wrong to defend a failed idea.

The fact they charge a premium for their services.......if they even offer their expertise to the public, is a small price to pay if you want a professional result. Far less expensive in the long run compared to failed experiments in a rainey backyard shed.
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