Dealership Nightmare

[SteveO]

Originally Posted by GoNOW

It's funny. Many of the demanding customers pull up with new or highend cars, they have money, or have complained their way into it. We have lots of redneck customers and most are very good, not big spenders, but great to have.

I love our regular customers that trust us. They pull up with a trailer full of toys for regular service or repairs. They don't care what we do, how we do it, what goes on in the shop, as long as it works. And don't bother calling them if we need anything extra unless it's over $100. For them, if something is broken and the part is discontinued, we will fabricate it ourselves, or even have a custom one CNC machined. They are very appreciative of what we do and we bend over backwards to make sure they are happy. It's how a shop and customer relationship should be.

GoNow, your work ethic and the shop you work in appear to be above par. I think there are a lot of shops out there that have young kids who don't really care about work ethics or about doing the job right on a customers bike. I like to see what the mechanics are riding; this gives me an idea as to how they would perform work on my own bike. If the muffler is being held in place with bailing wire, he/she doesn't care too much about safety of others or ensuring the bike is up to basic standards. I certainly wouldn't want that person working on my bike, as they would probably tend to cut corners, as they did on their own machine. This action of throwing away an expensive Oil-filter has me thinking these guys don't even know much about the machines they are working on. That's just silly.

As well, when I've encountered mechanics that are reluctant to perform basic work or want to overcharge for simple tasks; that tells me they aren't really interested in helping a customer, and thus helping their own business. On average a happy customer will tell about 3 people of a good experience; an un-happy customer will tell many, many more, and thus business will drop. I've been in customer service for a long time, and one thing I've learned is that when you are invested in business you want to go out of your way to work with customers and make sure they are happy. This business of "demanding customers", I think, can be applied to people who pretty much want something for free. If I know what I'm talking about and bring my bike in for specific tasks, and the shop accepts the bike with a list of tasks, I would expect those specific tasks to be done. Is meeting an expectation considered demanding?

As I stated before, my local shop has shown me just how lazy the Service Manager is. As well, he showed me just how disinterested in his own products he is....which, in my book is pathetic. He needs to get into another business and start caring about what he is doing. Thus, I do my own work, as I wouldn't trust those socket-monkeys to touch my bike....really, I think they would screw something up just to screw with the bike. Heck, when I got the bike from them, the rear section of the bike was missing a screw.....what does that say about their competence in assembling a bike?

At any rate, as stated earlier, GoNow, I think your shop may be the exception to the normal crappy customer service.

[charlie264]

Originally Posted by thugdog

Dealerships SELL bikes.

KTM fitted a mirror to each bike.

Dealerships are best left in that mirror.


~

+1. Stop using shite dealers. Lets go back to the old ways, a bike shop or machanic that knows his stuff and does the job right in the first place, thats how he got his good reputation in the first place.

Do I trust dealers machanic's to do a good job.....NO....WHY because its big profits, little time and poorly paid machanic. How do I know, cos Ive had bad service in the past. The machanic I recommend to others has a shitty little shop and it is as messy as fook. Shit hot bike machanic, so your money is well spent, but he dosen't have a lattee machine so customers can ponce around...

Thats why I do all my own wrenching, done right. Lets go back to buying bikes from bike shops, irrespective to corporate branding.

[corndog67]

Ok guys, I know the old time race dealers that would press bearings and stuff for you for free are gone. The guys that would check your bore, maybe toss a carb into the carb cleaner and let you get it later, the guys that would let you use the tire machine yourself and not charge you, but you'd better bring them a beer later.

Like I said, I know a couple of mechanics that will do what needs to be done to my bikes. I don't need to tell them to clean the wheel, if I wanted it cleaned, clean it myself. They don't need to be told what to do, they know me and they will do what is required or recommended by the manual or factory, and what is needed in daily use, as they are riders too.

Logman, I suggest you find someone like these guys. I can leave the bike there, with no instructions, and they'll do what what is needed. Very valuable guys, to be sure.

[GoNOW]

Originally Posted by SteveO

I like to see what the mechanics are riding; this gives me an idea as to how they would perform work on my own bike. If the muffler is being held in place with bailing wire, he/she doesn't care too much about safety of others or ensuring the bike is up to basic standards. I certainly wouldn't want that person working on my bike, as they would probably tend to cut corners, as they did on their own machine.

Then you would not want to come to my shop. Almost everyone drives trash. My main mode of transport is an 1989 TW200 that is thrashed and made of parts of other bikes. I spend as little on it as I can. The 2 year old gas we suck out of customers tanks because it runs poorly, goes into my TW. It burns it just fine, but eats fuel filters and needs carb cleans. It lives on old batteries too. I don't really care about the looks because it's a beater bike and is for getting me from point A to B. Any problems with the bike I can fix myself on the side of the road with the tools in my pocket.

I do not expect any of the customers to do the same so they get a quality of service that exceeds what I do to my own bike.
Well, my KTM is spotless and gets an extreme level of care, but only because I ride it hard and far. But I don't take it to work each day because of the cost so most customers never see it.


That and I spend 8 hours a day fixing other bikes, when I get home, I really don't want to work on my own.

[2upAussie990]

$100 an hour is not a high labour rate when you consider that sometimes you might be there for an hour when your bike is dropped off going over what you want done and maybe an hour when it's picked up, this time is not charged for, so if you get a bill for 4 hours workshop time it may well be closer to 6 hours total. Less than $70 / hour then.
My staff wages with our super annuation and workers insurance etc over here means my guys cost me close to $50-60.
We have a $99 an hour workshop labour rate for stuff we do, but there can be times when we can spend 3-4 hours plus closing a deal, take the customer to work, pick them up again, give them a courtesy vehicle for the day. none of this is charged for, I supply 99.5% of all the tools and equipment we have in our workshop, not my staff.

[alkiviadis]

Originally Posted by thugdog

Dealerships SELL bikes.

KTM fitted a mirror to each bike.

Dealerships are best left in that mirror.


~

Exactly!! +990

[KawiVA76]

I don't post often but this caught my interest. I'm a master certified tech with Mercedes Benz. Gonow is pretty spot on with his assessment. We have 24 techs in our shop. Out of those, twelve are completely worthless. Guys from other brands, trainees or just outright idiots. We have six mid level guys who are solid enough and do decent work, up and coming so to speak. Then we have the top six, who are the guys that can work on anything. Detail oriented, intelligent, problem solvers. Guys that can think on their feet and won't make stupid mistakes.

I try not to think of customers with lists as, "demanding customers". But the bottom line is that we are payed by the job. I just had a 2011 E63 the other day in for a 20k service. The car was spotless and there was a list. The end result, all the work was completed exactly as the customer requested. I got paid 2.2 labor units and spent three and a half hours on the car, lol. I like to think that most of the time I come out ahead of the clock. That the cars where I have to do certain work for free are just part of the business, etc. The tech is essentially responsible for his own destiny. If he's good at what he does and his bay is profitable then he will have lots of latitude in the shop. If I'm having a down week I just go to my service manager and ask him how expensive will it be to replace me and then magically I have a 20 hour day.

Our shop bills at $129/hour, I see $28 of that. I'm guessing the guy you got maybe just hasn't been in it long enough to realize its easier to make the customer happy and just keep moving. The fuel issue is unfortunate, but in the rush of the work day things happen. My advice would be to do all your work yourself. As said, nobody cares about your stuff as much as you do. I've watched guys hack through $130k cars. If you can't wrench it yourself then get to know a tech personally who can. It's human nature to care more about a person you've met and spoken with then a name on a repair order. I consider myself a professional and I still pay more attention to detail for a customer who I've met and built a relationship with.

Mike

[Krautbikeman]

Gospel, from the Preacher's mouth.

Originally Posted by KawiVA76

If you can't wrench it yourself then get to know a tech personally who can. It's human nature to care more about a person you've met and spoken with then a name on a repair order. I consider myself a professional and I still pay more attention to detail for a customer who I've met and built a relationship with.

Mike

[SteveO]

Originally Posted by Krautbikeman

...... If you can't wrench it yourself then get to know a tech personally who can. It's human nature to care more about a person you've met and spoken with then a name on a repair order. I consider myself a professional and I still pay more attention to detail for a customer who I've met and built a relationship with.

Mike

Well said. I got to know the tech who worked on my 4Runner. He was the only one I would allow to work on my rig. The others, as they showed me, where just there to fill space and take up oxygen.

[Krautbikeman]

Thanks for the nod, but I did not say that. I quoted Kawi-something-or-other .

Originally Posted by SteveO

Well said. I got to know the tech who worked on my 4Runner. He was the only one I would allow to work on my rig. The others, as they showed me, where just there to fill space and take up oxygen.

[propilot10]

Originally Posted by scottrnelson

This story makes me "feel good" as I'm about to take my 990 Adv to the local dealer for a service. I have no experience with them and don't know if they're any good or not. The old dealer that I bought the bike from might have been a bit expensive, but at least you could trust them to do proper work.

I had similar issues with a Ducati dealer years ago. After the second time that they lied to me I resolved that I wasn't ever going back there, even to look at new bikes. I then went to an independent shop that was so much better that I was kicking myself for not going there sooner. I don't know of any independent shops specializing in KTMs, though.

Anybody with KTM dealer recommendations in the Sacramento area?

So far I can recommend the dealer in Elk Grove. Nor cal Motorsports. Bought a new one a year ago. Have not had the need for any real repair work only a battery replaced under warranty. But they are very "real" if you will. Eric is awesome and rides and races the Ktms himself. Worth a try. I'd say tell them I sent you but you may give them you adventure and get back a Honda lol.

[ciedema]

I prefer to take my bike to places that rely on repeat mechanical work as their primary source of income, not as a sideline.

[MOLAHS]

Originally Posted by ciedema

I prefer to take my bike to places that rely on repeat mechanical work as their primary source of income, not as a sideline.

+1 Problem with most "dealerships" is that you don't deal with the mechanic, you deal with the "customer service" person who may or may not know what they are talking about but generally add an extra link in the communication train. Much better to deal with the person who is going to work on your bike.

[kingrj]

Originally Posted by logman

Thought I would share my recent experience with Village Motorsports in Grand Rapids, MI. Authorized KTM dealers and Mechanics?

My bike: 2007 KTM 950 Super Enduro with Safari tank.

Asked them to perform the following list below. At the top of the document they received from me I had the following -

**SHUT OFF BOTH FUEL PETCOCKS – WILL HYDROLOCK OVERNIGHT**
PLEASE DO NOT USE AN IMPACT WHEN RE-INSTALLING ANY BOLTS/NUTS – ONLY USE WHEN REMOVING
PLEASE TORQUE ALL BOLTS TO SPEC AFTER INSTALLING BY HAND

OK before you read the below list, I will tell you what they did in 3 weeks time.

-Replaced rear tire
-Chainged oil (they said they changed it because it was saturated with fuel.. HMM do you think they hydrolocked it in the shop because they didn't read the red tex above??).
-Threw away scotts stainless oil filter (they cannot find it)
-Checked compression
-Checked valves
-Reinstalled stock gas tank
-Reinstalled stock fuel pump (I gave it to them to TEST because I had hunch it was bad. Instead of testing it OFF the bike, they installed everything and then realized it was blowing fuses). I had a safari tank on it, too big right now with dieing aftermarket fuel pump.
-Ordered and replaced fuel pump

Note that somehow they managed to kill my bike at idle. Now if you snap the throttle at idle, it stalls, and runs rough. They can't figure out what is wrong, and they told me they had to call KTM to help diagnose (still no results).

They did not complete ANYTHING else, I told them I am picking it up tomorrow and they are going to pay for my scotts filter, and the 100 dollars in oil they drained into a bucket. I will never bring a bike to this dealer or any other for that matter. Mind you over the course of the 3 weeks I called them about 7 times, and each time they told me they would return my calls with updates. They never did, not a single call.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
My list.... given to them in paper form, they signed off on it.

Please service the following:
-Replace rear tire (TKC-80 or Equivalent also please clean the rear rim if possible)
-Check chain tension (Chain was replaced 1 month ago)
-Clean and then lubricate chain
-Check compression on both front and rear cylinders
-Check and adjust / re-shim valves on both front and rear cylinders where necessary
-Clean / adjust both front and rear carbs
-Sync front / rear carbs
-Adjust suspension for 190 pounds (rider is 170 + 20 pounds extra)
-Install stock fuel tank (see page 2 fuel tank)
-Replace all fuel lines

Recent service performed FYI:
-Clutch slave cylinder and fluid replaced
-Oil changed 50 miles ago (do not change oil!)
-Cooling system flushed
-Coolant changed
-Waterpump rebuilt / impeller replaced
-Chain replaced
-Front and rear sprocket replaced
-Front and rear tires replaced (needs new rear tire)


This is just pure incompetence... sorry for the novel, had to share... so frustrated right now.

Unfortunately if you live in this country this is what you can expect in the way of dealer service most of the time. I made up my mind long ago that I would perform all maintenance on my bikes in order to know they were repaired properly and were safe and reliable to ride. There is a reason Porsche mechanic time is like three times what an average motorcycle tech makes..you don't always get what you pay for but you always get what you don't pay for...I can't afford a "good" mechanic so I have to do the work myself.

[rudk]

logman, who are you to pretend professionality instead of incompetence...!!!!


I'm just surprised sentences like

"KTM's aren't for everybody. Maybe an offering from the Asian big-4 would be better suited to your needs"

"The problems you've had are all small, and most things you could have done yourself"

"If you want a motorcycle that just runs like an appliance, you may have bought the wrong one and might be happier with a Japanese model"

“That's all a piece of cake. If you can't fix it you don't deserve it”


and other ludicrous horse crap haven't shown up yet.