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Old 08-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #31
klaviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DandyDoug View Post
Another horror story about poor parts availability and service

Why on earth would a parts department and a service department not be able to talk to one another ( internal conflict, empire building, stupidity ??)

If it were me , I would be looking for another dealer and probably be trying to get out from underneath the product.

Just one more reason i am very cautiously approaching the idea of moving away from motorcycles to scooters , maxi or otherwise.

My first scooter dealership experience ( today) left me less than impressed.
They were ok , but i got the feeling that they would say and do anything to make a sale.
There are good and bad dealers out there. I have lived in 10 different states, some of them more than once. I have had the chance to do business at a large number of dealers. The Aprilia dealer where I bought my Sport City (also Moto Guzzi & MV Augusta) is, based on my experience so far, the best dealer I have done business with, ever, period.

I believe that the quality of the dealership is important. Too many people just go for the lowest price. When looking for that scooter, you should also be looking for a dealer you will be comfortable doing business with.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #32
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Always have and always will.
A good dealer , who values you as a customer can save you money and aggravation in the long run over a dealer who sells at the lowest price and will not help you when you need it.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:23 PM   #33
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No reason to believe that this dealer was a bad dealer and I don't think it is. I've done business with them before when I had the Beemer and at other times and they've treated me well. I think perhaps today was just a brain fart day, so I'm not upset with the dealer or dragging out the pitchforks and hot tar. They did not argue about it being a warranty matter...it was just a matter of transmitting a part number to the service writer. It's a good dealer and I always support local dealers until they prove their incompetency. In this case, it is also the only Piaggio dealer in the area.

As I just bought the bike and I like how it runs and handles, I'm obviously not going to dump it...there is no reason to do so yet...or maybe at all...I understand that the emotional reaction is to go to general quarters, roast the dealer, dump the bike and get out from under it, but I think there is a more rational position and that's the one I'm taking.

When I started this thread, I did so in order to pass information along, good and bad, warts and all, and that's why I provided the information above about the turnsignal. I don't mind passing along the information, because I like to share it for everyone's edification, but if I may politely point out that I only have 166 miles on the bike...I think I need to ride it more before I decide that it's a lost cause. Let's keep our heads about us, OK?
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #34
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Wart's and all are what many of us look for when we read and comment on these threads
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumshoe4 View Post
Thanks for the heads up, Cortez!

Cd, I've followed your BV voyages and am very impressed where and how you ride it. This summer, I'll probably take the SWing, as the BV won't be really broken in by the time I go...the BV might be next year after I pile some miles on it. I just got the Givi topbx mounting plate, which will go on tomorrow. Windshield is enroute, so we'll be good to go...
Thank you though I'm not sure it is all that deserved. I have fun and for the most part it has been trouble free with the exception of the flat tire coming back from DC. I still need to get the Amerivespa trip written up on my blog.

Thinking of a smal trip to the top of Mt. Evans Saturday if the forecast is accurate. Last time we rode up it was on the Burgman and Sports City not long after I injured my ankle so I couldn't walk to the top.

As for Piaggio parts availalbility in most cases I've had the needed parts within a couple of days. The one exception was replacing the speedometer which had to be shipped from Italy in August. August is when everything in Italy shuts down. The good news is that Piaggio is stocking more parts in the US so if the part is here you shold get it soon enough. If not, well it maybe September.

cdwise screwed with this post 08-02-2012 at 03:16 PM Reason: added parts info
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Old 08-02-2012, 03:27 PM   #36
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I have a service availability for the BV's first service on 08-21-2012 and my goal is to put some miles on the bike before it goes in.

Today, I took the BV up to Robinson Flat, about 27 miles east of Foresthill (~80 miles east of Sacramento) in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I live in the Sacramento Valley and it gets hot here in the summer (kind of cool right now...only in the mid-90's), so my default position is nearly always to head for the hills in the summer. I've done this run before on the SWing and have documented it, so just a few photos from today's run:

[IMG][/IMG]
Foresthill Road eastbound near Iowa Hill Road...Iowa Hill is where the Department of Forestry just got finished knocking down the Robber Fire...those firefighters are very much appreciated up here.

[IMG][/IMG]
Same location looking back west towards Foresthill

[IMG][/IMG]
View from the cockpit. You can just see the canyon of the North Fork of the American River at the left of the photo.

[IMG][/IMG]
In the big trees at about 5000' or so.

[IMG][/IMG]
Made it to Robinson Flat. It's all dirt from here, so I didn't go any further.

[IMG][/IMG]
Big hole on the north side of the road...

[IMG][/IMG]
Here's what it is...the North Fork canyon.

[IMG][/IMG]
An old burn..don't know when that fire was, but undergrowth is in good shape, so it's been awhile.

The bike ran fine...oil level was good from the first run and didn't need to add any. It ran a little on the warm side when in traffic or idling at a stoplight in the heat, but the fan went on and kicked the temp down...I think it's just a different type of temp sensor. The SWing never indicates above about halfway on the temp gauge, but its fan also goes on in this weather.

First full tank of fuel, the mileage looks like this: 137.9 miles/2.3 gallons = 59.9 mpg. That's pretty good, I think, because it's a brand new engine and I'm not babying it at all. However, I find that like the SWing, the BV is difficult to fuel well, or top off, due primarily to our stupid vapor recovery nozzles in California...rant on...these have been shown to accomplish absolutely nothing in terms of keeping gasoline vapors out of the air, and the California Air Resources Board has admitted it-we're still stuck with the damn things and they make it very difficult to fuel motorcycles, particularly bikes like the BV and SWing, whose fuel tank fillers are down on the floorboards and difficult to see. You have to pull back on the vapor recovery sleeve to get the nozzle to function, since most motorcycle filler necks are not compatible with the vapor recovery nozzles...this means you stand a pretty good chance of slopping gasoline out of the tank and onto your hands, or wasting some fuel...it's a stupid thing...OK, rant off. Since I don't think I completely filled the tank today, the mileage may be overstated...not sure...we'll keep checking and reporting.

Ending mileage on the odometer today is 321.

So I have two things to discuss with the dealer at the first service...I want him to check the cooling system...I'm sure it's OK, but better to ask than not...and fix the turnsignal.

Incidentally, the Givi box is really nice to have on this bike, because, as I mentioned previously, it lacks much underseat storage.

More to follow...

Hope you got out on your bike, CD...sounds like a cool ride...
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:29 PM   #37
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We have the same accordian fueling sleeves and what I do is when I take the cap off I put it at right angles to the filler neck. That way the gas cap pushes the sleeve up and I don't need to do so with my hand. Others like the http://www.mccuff.com/
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:55 PM   #38
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Nice looking bike and some great scenery to ride in
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #39
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That's smart.

Thanks for the link to the McCuff...just ordered one...
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:03 PM   #40
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Got to sit on a Silverwing today. I fit nicely. I still think the best overall fit for me on any scooter is a Burgman 650 but it is not on my list. The Silverwing does feel like an exagerated Reflex. Just a little bigger/different in some areas. It would be very easy to get used to- it feels just like the Reflex except with a little higher seat (a good thing) and a better overall riding position. I would be comfortable with one as my main ride as long as the motor/trans is as everyone has said - smoother than the Reflex. I think I can even put up with a choppy ride (if it rides that way) as long as the drivetrain is smooth. I know these things are reliable and built (simply) like a usual Honda. They look pretty badass in black.

I sure am thinking about it.......

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Old 08-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #41
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Hi, Bob. As I said earlier, the ergos on the Burgman 400 are, to me, superior to the Silverwing...but man, do they ever want a pile of money for the new B400 or the new SWing these days. I'd look for a nice used B400, 2007 or newer (major engine redo in 2007, decreasing frequency of valve clearance checks), but a nice used SWing like mine is nothing to sneeze at either, if it fits you. The SWing is a good fit for me, the B400 is just better...

Here's a photo of the SWing taken on the same route east of Foresthill at China Wall in the late spring 2011:



Thank you, Klaviator...I like to take the camera along. You're right, it is a beautiful area to ride. I think several of us are heading for the Feather River Canyon if things cool down a bit, maybe mid-August or so...another good place for photos.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:05 PM   #42
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Stopped in at the local Suzuki dealer today , they had an 08 650 Burgman on the floor, 43k miles !! wanted $5700.00 for it ,YIKES !!

Sat on a 2012 dark gray , liked how it sat , a lot !
Sticker was around $9800.00 !!

Have been e mailing with a guy who has an 08 650 with 3800 miles , but i am not sure if it has the electric wind screen, when did they start coming with that ??
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:13 PM   #43
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I think the electric windscreen is on the B650 Executive, but the plain old B650 does not have it.

I'd be very careful about buying a used B650. As I and others have noted elsewhere, the B650's transmission is an electronically controlled CVT which is very complex and which has a belt embedded deeply inside the case. The belt is supposed to last the life of the bike, but some, REPEAT, some B650 owners have experienced belt failure at 30-60K miles. Replacement of the belt requires a tear down of the bike, removal of the engine/transmission, repair and replacement...it's a major piece of work and costs $2000-3000...in some cases, as much or more than the bike is worth. I love the B650's size, comfort and ergos, but I really don't trust that transmission. The owners themselves are the ones reporting it...here's a link to the Burgman website-I recommend that you go over there and do some poking around...don't take my word for it, as I don't own a B650: http://burgmanusa.com/forums/viewfor...c850cb65dbf55b

Good luck with your search...there are a lot of good choices out there, each with their plusses and minusses...
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:21 AM   #44
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Thanks gumshoe4

After reading the horror stories on the belt/CVT /bearing failures it's enough to make one wonder why the machine is so popular

Sounds a lot like the BMW final drive failures, or the broken spoke issues reported by the new Triumph Bonneville guys . Never had either issue on any of my BMW's or my 05 Bonneville T100.

Yes those things do happen , but overall I think they are in the minority.

My quest to find the right maxi continues !
I may hold off until the BMW C650GT does get here and then do a comparison with the SWing, the Burgman and the BMW.
I think the BMW will be more expensive than the others , but it will have more content ;
eg: cruise control, heated grips/seats. From what I read the final drive will be totally different also
All though the 2012 Burgman in dark gray sure is pretty.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:21 AM   #45
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gumshoe4? very nice written with a ton of information,, you should be writting for a major motorcycle magazine!,,,,,,, but as I was reading it I kinda felt sorry for you cause you never was on a Tmax.
I had past experience riding the Silver Wing and the Burgman and both doesn't even come close as great (to me) as the Tmax... my experiences with the SW is its very unstable at high speeds above 60 mph to the point at almost feeling dangerous, the Burgman feels good and stable at high speeds but it has a very heavy feel like riding a giant cruiser bike and the tight curve handling is terrible.
I admit before I bought the Tmax I wanted the Burgman, but the Suzuki dealer expected me to kiss his ass for it so I was forced to buy the Tmax instead,,, but I NEVER even considered the Silver Wing cause I believe its far worse than the Burgman.

don't get mad at me,, just giving you my honest thoughts.

,,,,,but you're compairing the BV against one of the worst scooters out there and IF you like the SW better,,,, then in my book the BV must be really, really bad!
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