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Old 07-22-2014, 02:29 PM   #1
Ramanonos OP
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Valve adjustment - clicktity click

Bought a R100GS and going through the tune up stuff. I set my exhaust to .008 and intake to .005. My manual tells me .004 for intake, but there was some disagreement on an ADV thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106808 whether it was .004 or .006 on the intake- so I just went .005.

I figured that was good, but a couple issues after a test run:

1. Valves tightened up after ride. Made another feeler retighten to get it back. Is this normal/typical?

2. After the adjustment, the valves were doing a loud clicking sound. Before it was quiet. But it started cleaner after adjustment. So do we like loud clicking r100gs or quiet?

3. This is more a noob question, but when doing the feeler gauge, do we want a subtle rub or a tight rub. The difference being a whole size up difference. What I'm getting at, is maybe my .008 exhaust is really a .009, thus explaining the clicky valves.


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Old 07-22-2014, 02:34 PM   #2
disston
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I hang the feeler gauge in the rocker/tip and tighten till it stays but I can pull it out with little resistance.

I use .006 and .008

Were you observant of the vertical movement of the rockers?

What year is bike?
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:43 PM   #3
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On trick I learned while working at a BMW dealer was to press down on the push-rod end of the rocker to displace the oil film when setting clearance...

On the bit about being louder now, how was the adjustment prior to your changing it?

Did you do any other work at the time (re-torque the head for example)?
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:04 PM   #4
Ramanonos OP
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It's an '89 r100gs. Those measurements suggests I'm in range. Maybe my intake at.005 is a little loose; however I still find it strange that the manual(s) and dealers say .004 on intake, but the hardcores elsewhere say .006? I'll measure again when I get home - after she cools.
No, I didn't check the rockers. Should they be vertical stiff, or some slight play? If the latter, is there a feeler gauge measurement test on the rocker? Didn't find anything about it in the manual.

On another/related note, I noticed some corrosion, sand and water inside the head cover. The gasket looked fine, but maybe it's still a gasket issue?


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Old 07-22-2014, 03:09 PM   #5
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One thing I noticed on my R50/5 is that the exhaust valve adjustment on one side at least seems to vary depending on how the valve is rotating in the seat (they do rotate every time they open and close, I think). So I'd check it once, turn the engine over a few times, and check it again and the difference could be about .05mm -- that was enough to cause me some confusion for quite a while, since exhaust valve clearance is 0.2mm so every time I checked it would seem to be getting tighter or looser than before. Once I figured this out it solved the mystery.

This also seemed to affect how noisy the valve was even when just checking the clearance by hand (pushing down on the rocker). When it was on the "larger" end of the variation it would be more clicky. On the smaller end of variation it was more quiet.

You might try to check that on your bike to see if it makes a difference.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:15 PM   #6
disston
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The area you found sand and dirt in is not inside the valve cover. Look carefully and you will see the valve cover makes two sealed areas. One is the exhaust rocker and the other is the intake rocker. The area in between is open to the elements.

Clean the dirt, grit and sand out. Careful not to get any inside the sealed area. Valve cover gaskets last a long time if treated with a little care.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:52 PM   #7
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Press on the rocker arm to take out all slack in the system while you check the gap. How to use the feeler gauges? It isn't .008 until .009 is real tight or won't go at all. No need for go/no go feeler gauges. Just use an .008 and a .009 feeler gauge. It's the same thing only it works better. Most people including many a pro mechanic I have worked with do not know how to properly use feeler gauges. What they think is .008 is usually actually somewhere between .010 and .015 depending but they think airheads are suppose to sound like cement mixers when they run. WRONG! Properly adjusted valves are not noisy. Click clackity valves just means you do not know how to adjust them. Not only does it sound like junk, it hammers the components needlessly. Always check lash AFTER the lock nuts are tightened. The lock nuts do not need to be tightened very much for their fine threads. Torque remaining constant, thread pitch changes how tight a fastener is. The threads are exactly like a transmission. Fine pitch is first gear. Course pitch is top gear.

According to BMW service bulletins, ALL airheads should be adjusted to .004 and .008. There is no need to adjust intakes looser than .004. All it does is make more noise and hammer the components.

Never change valve cover gaskets unless you have to. The head's valve cover gasket surface often warps and the gasket that is on there now is masking its effects. New gaskets and they leak? If they do the surface often needs machining.

Rocker arm end play should be as close to zero as possible. Modified C clamp Vise Grips are the best tool to use. Make sure the rocker arm moves freely through its complete range of motion AFTER the head nuts are tightened. Always loosen the bottom nut unless the rocker arm is off center on the valve stem. The bottom studs have more thread purchase in the case and are less likely to pull. 26ftlbs does not pull threads. No need to go with any less torque IF you are using the tool correctly.

Bushed and shimmed rocker arms? Unless the shims are WAY off, adjust rocker arm end play just like you do with the earlier type. Anton's website warns that it can't be done and if it is it is very bad. WRONG. With myself and numerous other pro mechanics that I know adjusting the shimmed setups just like the earlier ones I am speaking from the experience of hundreds and probably hundreds of airheads adjusted thusly under our collective belts. As a matter of fact, the end play can be set much more accurately and thusly better doing it just as on the earlier setups.

Good luck!

Chris Harris? Really? Surely there are better how to's out there? I hope so!

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Old 07-22-2014, 04:39 PM   #8
garthg
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Watch the Chris Harris video on valve adjustment. This will help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExx_2kIc9c

This video includes how to adjust the side play on the rockers. Too much side play will make the valve train noisy.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:57 PM   #9
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On airheads when setting end play I've always just used my fingers to press them together and a .001 feeler gauge. That leaves just enough room for an oil film to develop between the parts.

I'm a fan of go no go when it comes to feeler gauges and valve adjustments. The older airheads where 008 exhaust and 006 intake so that's what I always use.

Valves that you can just hear are much better than if they are quiet, if they are quiet they are likely too tight. Also different types of oil can make the valves sound noisier than they actually are. Also wear in the timing chain can affect valve adjusts. Don't over tighten the lock nut on the adjuster. Once you stretch those fine threads it is next to impossible to get an accurate valve setting.

If you find that you are always having to adjust the valves every 5k then you should check for worn seats as they and the valve likely need to be replaced. If you have the spark plugs out you can rotate the engine and carefully look into the spark plug hole and see the edge of the valve. If it looks really sharp and thin then its time for a replacement.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:17 PM   #10
robtg
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How can timing chain wear change valve adjustment?
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:18 PM   #11
Bill Harris
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You have an '89 engine. The rocker arm supports are well-indexed with locating dowels and the axial play is set with shims. Forget the earlier advice (or as certain gurus always say, advise) on squeezing, c-clamps, vice grips (or is that vise grips?) and all. That is for earlier heads, yours are set to zero play with shims.

http://largiader.com/tech/rockers/

Set the valves at .006 intake and .008 exhaust (or whatever value is in vogue), set them wit h moderate drag on the feeler gauge so that the pushrod just starts to spin when you twirl it twixt you fingers.

Don't obsess, it ain't that important in the big scheme of things. If you were whacking your super-duper ultra camshaft'd boxer engine to 10,000 rpm frequently, it might be important. You have a aircooled engine with non-hydraulic tappets that is going to be noisy as a matter of course. If the nooise is bothersome to you, get better eraplugs.

Check the valve clearance every couple of thousand miles (or more often til you establish pattern) and you'll find that the valves close down very little if any. If you start seeing a substantial closing-up of the exhaust valve clearance, worry and plan to look closer.

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Old 07-22-2014, 06:27 PM   #12
Ramanonos OP
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Thanks disston. I noticed this as well when I opened a 2nd time (crap was outside the gasket area). Thanks supershaft. What I thought was a .004, I was able to jam a tight .007 into. So I'll measure for a .004 and consider perfect if I can barely squeeze in a .005. Same for exhaust .008/.009. This is great advise.

Rockers have no vertical slop movement after I tighten, so I'll consider that fine.




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Old 07-22-2014, 08:53 PM   #13
Ramanonos OP
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Ok. Thanks. I grab a set of no-gos tomorrow. I haven't adjusted again, but those "clicks" became "clangs" after a longer run


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Old 07-22-2014, 09:20 PM   #14
supershaft
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Well...no, it actually isn't.

If you use a go/no-go gauge you will get a setting between .006 and .007. No smaller than .006. No bigger than .007. No "tight". No Maybe. No guessing. And you will be very closely within a .001 range---right down to the precision of the gauges.

You can get the same place using four tools instead of two. it's slower, clumsier and having more tools with little numbers graven on them ups the odds of you making an error. This is why go/no-go gauges exist---speed and error control. I only carry two gauges, one labeled "Intake" and the other labeled "exhaust". Done deal.

Go/no-go feeler gauges are only one of a great number of inspection tools, both standard and custom, built on the same principle---they are stepped to establish the desired tolerance range. When one step goes and the other doesn't you are there.


Several people have recommended them to you for a reason. Our house contrarian and troll has steered you otherwise because he could care less about you and hopes to rouse an argument with the other regulars. Perhaps Henry will be along in a moment to give him one.



When someone sends me a PM (private message) I get an email advising me and a popup on the forum. This just happened. Facilitates communication. I also have the ability set up (I think) for people to email me. (in case they want to buy the brand new tire I am selling). I think these settings are somewhere in your profile.
Explain to us how a go/no go gauge works differently than two gauges? How do they reduce guessing over using two different gauges? How are they easier to use than two separate gauges when most go/no gauges are stepped well up the gauge were if is difficult to get to for our rocker arm and valve setup?

By all means get some go/no go gauges OP. You might find them handy for something. I would rather use standard gauges adjusting our valves. I suspect most would from what I have seen working at BMW motorcycle establishments and the like.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:41 PM   #15
supershaft
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
You have an '89 engine. The rocker arm supports are well-indexed with locating dowels and the axial play is set with shims. Forget the earlier advice (or as certain gurus always say, advise) on squeezing, c-clamps, vice grips (or is that vise grips?) and all. That is for earlier heads, yours are set to zero play with shims.

http://largiader.com/tech/rockers/

Set the valves at .006 intake and .008 exhaust (or whatever value is in vogue), set them wit h moderate drag on the feeler gauge so that the pushrod just starts to spin when you twirl it twixt you fingers.

Don't obsess, it ain't that important in the big scheme of things. If you were whacking your super-duper ultra camshaft'd boxer engine to 10,000 rpm frequently, it might be important. You have a aircooled engine with non-hydraulic tappets that is going to be noisy as a matter of course. If the nooise is bothersome to you, get better eraplugs.

Check the valve clearance every couple of thousand miles (or more often til you establish pattern) and you'll find that the valves close down very little if any. If you start seeing a substantial closing-up of the exhaust valve clearance, worry and plan to look closer.

--Bill

Is doing it right obsessing? Not to me it isn't. Loud valves don't save lives. They just need to be adjusted correctly. Your rocker arms will thank you.

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