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Old 08-02-2012, 08:18 AM   #16
devo2002
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This is all talk until someone who has done this and reports their engine blew up or it went 100k+ miles.

Unless someone has ridden the same bike brand new, one via moto
Method, one via service manual, and ridden the same way, there is simply no way to verify which is better
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo2002 View Post
This is all talk until someone who has done this and reports their engine blew up or it went 100k+ miles.

Unless someone has ridden the same bike brand new, one via moto
Method, one via service manual, and ridden the same way, there is simply no way to verify which is better
I thought this was pretty convincing:
Identical engines, "According to manual" on left, "Motoman method" on right.




I am a mechanical engineer and I understand and agree with Motoman's explanation of why he thinks his method works. It makes sense mechanically. You warm up the engine, you load the piston rings significantly under positive and negative pressure, then change the oil to remove possible contaminations.

If the only reasoning for preferring according to manual is "because the manufacturer said so", that is not much of a scientific argument.

pretbek screwed with this post 08-02-2012 at 08:39 AM Reason: Speling mistkae
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pretbek View Post
If the only reasoning for preferring according to manual is "because the manufacturer said so", that is not much of a scientific argument.
So, there is more scientific methods used with Motoman? (see, that shit works both ways)

How many engineers do MFGs employ- many
How many engineers does Motoman employ- none
How many MFGs suggest the 'slow' break in- all
How many MFGs suggest the motoman style method- none

Why would every motorcycle MFG suggest the same style of break in, since I can remember- at least into the 70's?
At some point you have to look at the big picture.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:32 PM   #19
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I just ride my new bike, and change the oil. Never had a problem. I've heard lots of different opinions in all my years of riding on how to break in an engine, none seem to matter as long as you're not bouncing it off the rev limiter when you leave the showroom.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb View Post
So, there is more scientific methods used with Motoman? (see, that shit works both ways)

How many engineers do MFGs employ- many
How many engineers does Motoman employ- none
How many MFGs suggest the 'slow' break in- all
How many MFGs suggest the motoman style method- none

Why would every motorcycle MFG suggest the same style of break in, since I can remember- at least into the 70's?
At some point you have to look at the big picture.
I do not agree with the statement that all MFG's recommend a "slow" break in. Generally, they suggest varied RPM's with no steady throttle. Many do suggest avoiding prolonged full throttle operation but that is not the same as "take it easy".

Loading the engine with varying throttle input is generally considered the correct way to break in an engine. Positive and negative pressure help produce a good ring seal against the cylinder wall. Easy, or steady state, throttle is not the way to go.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:33 PM   #21
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I'm a Motoman follower.

Klr650 with 45,ooo miles and Dr650 with 25.000 plus on it.

Both bike made a round trip journey of 6000 miles and used no oil whatsover.

Not even a drop.

You don't really think the OEM's can recommend you take your new bike out and ride it hard. There would be wrecked bikes all over the place.
It isn't about what's best for your engine with them.

They just cover their asses.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:45 PM   #22
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I'm no mechanic. I read things and some things make sense more than others. I ran in my old Buell Uly pretty much by the "Motoman book". That bike used no oil in the 12,000K miles I owned it. Pretty rare for a Buell!

When I bought my XC, I did kind of a Motoman/Calsci combo. The stopping/starting to allow the engine to slightly cool down made sense to me. My XC has never used a drop of oil, and it's pretty quick.

The methods make sense to me, and frankly, who wants to baby a new bike for 1,000 miles? Like I said, I'm no mechanic. At the end of the day, we make choices and we need to live by them. Frankly, I don't keep my bikes long enough to know long term. Happy with how they run while I own them though
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:49 PM   #23
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My FJR1300 is eight years old with 50K on the clock and has never used a drop of oil either.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:44 PM   #24
mousitsas
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Had an R1150GS
Broke it in with Motoman method
Kept it for 60k miles
Never used oil
Pretty rare for an R1150GS
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeejayP999 View Post
I fear that you've misunderstood the Motoman method.

There's nothing harsh or rough about it - and we're not "Getting away with it now because of superior engineering ability". In fact it's nothing new - I've seen the same method recommended for old Brit bikes, by one of the most renowned Brit Bike engine builders of the day.

So it's a sound, long established process.

It's simply a methodical system of loading and unloading the engine in order to ensure proper seating of the piston rings - surely a far better approach than simply following the age-old recipe of certain revs for a certain mileage.

In fact the only possible downside is that it may be a waste of time with some modern engines - ie those which are already run-in on the bench (doubtless using a similar method) before they even leave the factory.

So at worst you waste some time, at best you end up with a smoother, more efficient engine.
Your fear is correct. I did misunderstand and didnt go and have a look at it for myself. Quite agree with what you ( and others in same vein) say. Really stupid of me to make assumptions. Can only offer that recently in another forum there was a similar discussion which promoted the idea that you go out and "run the bike hard, flat out, dont worry about anything" I jumped to conclusion that this was similar. Apologies all round.
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:08 AM   #26
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same here.
i used to go to the marysville ohio honda homecoming every year before they shipped the goldwings overseas to be built. during the plant tour those technicians on the dyno runs ran it up hard to 60-70 mph to make sure everything was in proper working order. i think that whole break in thing is a thing of the past & as someone else wrote is something written by the bean counters & lawyers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailrider200 View Post
Went to the Marysville MD honda motorcycle plant a few yrs ago when they were still building Valkyries and Goldwings there. Took the tour through the assembly line, get to the intial startup/run dyno platform that ALL new bikes go to. Each bike was run through the gears to a top speed of 60 mph. The bikes were not run to redline, but the operator was far from easy on the rpms going through the gears doing his different tests. Valkyrie and GW engines are known for 400+K miles longevity and never burn oil. The motoman is right!
anybody who is around the building and tunning of new race engines on a dyno will tell u he is right. nobody puts 600 hundred easy miles on a race engine before it goes on the dyno.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:39 AM   #27
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I neither agree or disagree with the method, but...............

Who is "Motoman"?
What's his name?
What's his training?
What's his education?
What's his expertise?
What's the engineering behind his methodology?
There's anecdotal evidence, but that's not science, so where is the science?

BTW, those are rhetorical questions mostly, but before you decide what break-in method you use, you have to at least ask those questions.

For me, when I recently purchased my new motorcycle I did ask those questions of myself. To me, the answer was clear enough so I did it by the book that came with the bike.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:01 PM   #28
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I've used the motoman method on all dirt bikes that received a top-end kit. I've used this method on street bikes too. Or you can go by the manual which was probably written by some guy using last model's manual for a template as did the guy who wrote that one, and so on. It's your bike do whatever you want. Sharing of information shouldn't be criticized. As far as anecdotal evidence goes, I think the pictures speak for themselves.
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:09 PM   #29
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Great Discussion

Thanks everyone for your input. It's been an interesting topic to watch.

In the end, I decided to apply varied throttling and acceleration/deceleration cycles in all the gears, but did so - and will continue to do so - completely within the parameters of the Triumph's recommended break-in. I agree that those two techniques are not new, nor the exclusive domain of this infamous "Motoman" character. But I will credit him and his devotees of making me think more deeply about the topic and approaching my break-in from a slightly more educated standing.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:12 AM   #30
mousitsas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
I neither agree or disagree with the method, but...............

Who is "Motoman"?
What's his name?
What's his training?
What's his education?
What's his expertise?
What's the engineering behind his methodology?
There's anecdotal evidence, but that's not science, so where is the science?

BTW, those are rhetorical questions mostly, but before you decide what break-in method you use, you have to at least ask those questions.

For me, when I recently purchased my new motorcycle I did ask those questions of myself. To me, the answer was clear enough so I did it by the book that came with the bike.
While searching for this method in da net, a while ago, I came across several articles from older days by race mechanics who actually have been using thiis same method in their race car engines. So, it is not something new really. I believe it became known as the 'motoman method' in da bike world, for some reason. Oh, don't ask for links, that was many years ago.
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