ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-05-2012, 10:27 AM   #31
tcourdin
Resident Spooner
 
tcourdin's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Arkansas
Oddometer: 10,437
Lol I keep reading about "I did motoman and my bike has never used a drop of oil". Well I did not do the motoman break in and none of my bikes in the last 30+ years have used oil.

I think it all comes down to maintenance and how you treat your bikes.
__________________
My SPOT
tcourdin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 11:31 AM   #32
Bueller
Cashin?
 
Bueller's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Hide Away Hills, Ohio
Oddometer: 17,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by pretbek View Post
I thought this was pretty convincing:
Identical engines, "According to manual" on left, "Motoman method" on right.

What's wrong with this picture?

1) The crown of the motorman piston isn't quite totally visible in the photo, but appears to be clean. I don't care how well rings seal, the combustion of fossil fuel leaves behind carbon. That piston doesn't even look like it's been run.

2) Likewise with the piston area above the ring. Even if all of the rings are sealing as close to perfectly as possible, there will still be some discoloration and accumulation from combustion deposits left behind from burning fuel. The motoman piston has none. My theory is there is a significant difference in the amount of use each of those pistons have seen. The Motoman piston has been run very little, if at all.

Motoman is a fraud. I have built, rebuilt, and been inside of thousands of engines in my career, many different designs and manufacturers, many different kinds of use. This includes racing engines broken in on the dyno. They all accumulate deposits, for the reasons I stated above. It is impossible to burn pump gasoline and not wind up with a brown/black carbon accumulation on your pistons. Motoman does echo one truth that came long before him, that being the varying of load on a new engine is a good thing. His oil change recommendations are nothing short of a ridiculous waste of petroleum. Quality oil filters catch debris big enough to matter. Quality oil keeps the really small pieces in suspension.

If you want to break in your motorcycle properly, simply take it to the mountains and ride twisty, hilly roads. Gradually increase max RPM between shifts, and allow the engine to provide much of the braking on decel. You will wind up with a properly broken in engine with good ring seal, without incurring the risk of crashing your new motorcycle because you are too focused on some idiot's recommendation that came from the web instead of watching where you are going.

If after that you still think Motoman is the shit, well then you should do what his web page says and check out his top 1000 music videos. After all, that has everything to do with breaking in an engine, right? How can you possibly break in an engine the motoman way without motoman's music? What a fraud.
__________________
"Bueller, you're an island of sense in a sea of bullshit" - swimmer

"bueller, you ARE an island of reason in a sea of bullshit" - quasigentrified
Bueller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:23 PM   #33
RichardU
Let's Ride
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Marietta, GA
Oddometer: 892
I've broken in about 8 bikes in the last 8 years, all using the motoman technique except one -- the one that now burns oil. Not conclusive, but one more data point.

Why would a manufacturer's engineers put out a manual telling you to needlessly baby your bike? Because the manufacturer also employs lawyers and accountants.
RichardU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:24 PM   #34
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
1) The crown of the motorman piston isn't quite totally visible in the photo, but appears to be clean. I don't care how well rings seal, the combustion of fossil fuel leaves behind carbon. That piston doesn't even look like it's been run.

I was wondering about the same thing, but kept it to myself, because some people seem to take this whole thing so passionately... but now that you brought it up, yeah there will always be carbon build-up in the crown, and the break-in method cannot affect that.

I also think some have misunderstood, what the manufacturers actually recommend to do with the break-in, or haven´t even bothered to check.

Pecha72 screwed with this post 08-05-2012 at 10:10 PM
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 01:05 PM   #35
mousitsas
Beastly Adventurer
 
mousitsas's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Oddometer: 2,706
A question that has been asked before

Have your new engines been run on the dyno at full power before you buy your new bike?
mousitsas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #36
protondecay123
Gnarly Adventurer
 
protondecay123's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Oddometer: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
What's wrong with this picture?

1) The crown of the motorman piston isn't quite totally visible in the photo, but appears to be clean. I don't care how well rings seal, the combustion of fossil fuel leaves behind carbon. That piston doesn't even look like it's been run.

2) Likewise with the piston area above the ring. Even if all of the rings are sealing as close to perfectly as possible, there will still be some discoloration and accumulation from combustion deposits left behind from burning fuel. The motoman piston has none. My theory is there is a significant difference in the amount of use each of those pistons have seen. The Motoman piston has been run very little, if at all.

Motoman is a fraud. I have built, rebuilt, and been inside of thousands of engines in my career, many different designs and manufacturers, many different kinds of use. This includes racing engines broken in on the dyno. They all accumulate deposits, for the reasons I stated above. It is impossible to burn pump gasoline and not wind up with a brown/black carbon accumulation on your pistons. Motoman does echo one truth that came long before him, that being the varying of load on a new engine is a good thing. His oil change recommendations are nothing short of a ridiculous waste of petroleum. Quality oil filters catch debris big enough to matter. Quality oil keeps the really small pieces in suspension.

If you want to break in your motorcycle properly, simply take it to the mountains and ride twisty, hilly roads. Gradually increase max RPM between shifts, and allow the engine to provide much of the braking on decel. You will wind up with a properly broken in engine with good ring seal, without incurring the risk of crashing your new motorcycle because you are too focused on some idiot's recommendation that came from the web instead of watching where you are going..
did you invent the Internet too?
__________________
Sometimes the Lights are all Shinin' on Me
Other times I can barely see
Lately It Occurs to Me
What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been!
protondecay123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 02:16 AM   #37
twinrider
pass the catnip
 
twinrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: 日本
Oddometer: 9,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeoxlv View Post
Imagine a fairly long drawn out exasperated scream.
Then a deep sigh and steadying of the emotions.
The FJR is in its prime and the S10 just loosening up nicely so far too early to claim any benefit or otherwise of the "rough" method. Its an absolute tribute to the engineers that we get away with this behaviour towards motors, not so many years ago that motor would be smoking and showing signs of an early death.
Any "method" that involves "rough" or "hard" treatment of an engine (usually with a male "i'll show you whos boss" overtone) needs to be avoided. Why? you say, "as you,ve just said, we can get away with it now because of superior engineering ability"
Yep, you are right in that and here is where it gets difficult. if you are young then your viewpoint is going to be quite modern with all of its quick gratification and short term pleasure bits. And very consumerist as in, "i'll just get another one".
But an older person like me will tell you that the engine (and overall bike) that is treated with respect and run in well and then ridden hard at times, but never abused, will provide better power, more smoothly and for longer than the engine that has been treated via the "rough, or whatever" method. There is a huge element of self confidence and pride in all this that cannot be put easily into words and certainly not by me. It sticks out like the proverbials when some people write about this or that that they indeed have no real knowledge or understanding or EMPATHY with their machine. Shallow and callous in fact.
There you go, that should give you wide scope for derision-----
Graeme
My friend's 2007 FJR was broken in the Motoman way. Nearly 140,000 miles on it, runs like a top and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I break my bikes in the same way and have never had an engine issue yet.
__________________
2014 350 EXC-F
2011 XT1200Z
2009 FLHR
2006 Djebel 250XC
twinrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 04:49 AM   #38
omeoxlv
Gnarly Adventurer
 
omeoxlv's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Omeo Region
Oddometer: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
My friend's 2007 FJR was broken in the Motoman way. Nearly 140,000 miles on it, runs like a top and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I break my bikes in the same way and have never had an engine issue yet.
TW, I stand by the thrust of my comments which are all very "deep" but You should also look at my subsequent post because I was in error in my understanding of the Motoman method.
Graeme
omeoxlv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 06:50 AM   #39
Gerg
Cupcake
 
Gerg's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Left Coast
Oddometer: 8,312
Holy war!!!

My miscellaneous thoughts.

Break YOUR bike in the way YOU want to... If you have to research how to do it you shouldn't be on it.

I don't agree totally with Motoman... New engines create a LOT of frictional heat. The harder you run it in the early stages the more heat it has to deal with. I HAVE been witness to a newly rebuild V8 seizing after 5 minutes of idling. LOTS of friction with LOTS of heat and nowhere to go. Just goes to show you don't have to beat it to kill it.

As many have already said, find a Mountain, twisty road. Ride it in BOTH directions.

Wide open throttle introduces LOTS of fuel which washes down the cylinder walls. Why do you want to do that to a new engine?

Common sense goes a long way. Think about what your are doing.

Myself? I break in new engines aggressively but not anything like Motoman suggests and the oil gets changed at 600 miles. Any sooner is a waste of oil.

Gerg
__________________
Greg
Certified Ole Fart

Gerg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 08:10 AM   #40
Bueller
Cashin?
 
Bueller's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Hide Away Hills, Ohio
Oddometer: 17,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by protondecay123 View Post
did you invent the Internet too?
I don't think I'd post something that stupid even if I had nothing intelligent to add to the discussion.

Perhaps instead you should check out motorman's top 1000 music videos. He says they're really nifty
__________________
"Bueller, you're an island of sense in a sea of bullshit" - swimmer

"bueller, you ARE an island of reason in a sea of bullshit" - quasigentrified
Bueller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 08:39 AM   #41
mousitsas
Beastly Adventurer
 
mousitsas's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Oddometer: 2,706
A google search of the terms "engine break in" will yield many results. The following two are from the most trustworthy sources I could find from the first page..

http://www.airpowerinc.com/downloads...FlightTips.pdf
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...k-in-a-new-car
mousitsas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #42
DSM8
Where fun goes to die....
 
DSM8's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Glendora, Ca
Oddometer: 3,666
This method

I have used this on three bikes now all new out of the box.

DL650 2007 98K miles, still uses less than 1/3 of a quart of oil every 5K miles when I do an oil change

07 KTM 990 18K miles burns no oil at all, change it every 3K miles cause all mileage on this bike is mostly off road dirt stuff

2004 DRZ400 8K miles when sold, same change interval as the 990. Never burned a drop of oil.

I measure the amount of oil I take out of the bike when I do an oil change to see how much has been lost, I always expect a small amount lost due to retention in the filter.

I dont go crazy with my break-in's. I have a long steep windy road here that ride up and down a few time about 50 miles worth. The entire time I am either on or off the throttle, never to redline but up in the RPM's.

The idea behind his theory is to keep pressure on the rings so they fully seat against the bore. That is what this riding does since the bike is either on or off the throttle. When off I am using compression braking, when on it is acceleration.

All I can say is it works for me so there is my .02
__________________
DSM8 - A different kind of mean
SQL > SELECT finger FROM hand WHERE id=3
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/f...d5LbKWMz6cHxaH

DSM8 screwed with this post 08-11-2012 at 12:02 AM
DSM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 09:34 AM   #43
twinrider
pass the catnip
 
twinrider's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: 日本
Oddometer: 9,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
A google search of the terms "engine break in" will yield many results. The following two are from the most trustworthy sources I could find from the first page..

http://www.airpowerinc.com/downloads...FlightTips.pdf
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...k-in-a-new-car
The Popular Mechanics writer pretty much echoes the Motoman method.
__________________
2014 350 EXC-F
2011 XT1200Z
2009 FLHR
2006 Djebel 250XC
twinrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #44
RichardU
Let's Ride
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Marietta, GA
Oddometer: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider View Post
The Popular Mechanics writer pretty much echoes the Motoman method.
Yup. All of which adds up to: don't abuse the bike, but don't baby it either.
RichardU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 01:21 PM   #45
mousitsas
Beastly Adventurer
 
mousitsas's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Athens, Greece
Oddometer: 2,706
Pretty much what I think too...
mousitsas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014