Impressed as heck with Chrysler's 3.6 VVT engine

[Carlo Muro]

I'm on a 2 week business trip and rented a brand new Dodge Grand Caravan to haul all my gear in. On the way up I thought it felt peppy even with about 500 lbs of electronic gear and other computer crap I had stuffed in it. Once I unloaded all the stuff I was pleasantly surprised just how quick it could be. Rev's to 6500 and is rated 283 SAE NET horsepower.
It can't be a light weight with all the electric doors and other luxuries that Chrysler has saddled it with. While it's not "fast" in the same league as a lot of current cars out there, I can remember some "muscle" cars from years back that I think this van could hang with if not outright spank.
Mileage was not too awful bad either. I averaged just about 23 fully loaded on interstate with a fairly heavy foot.

Still handles like a whale though

I've been eyeing a Jeep Wrangler and I guess now it will have to be a '12 or newer so I can get this engine.

[broncobowsher]

10 years ago or so there was a show on Speedvision (forgot the name but funny car show based out of Canada)
They took a Chrysler minivan loaded full of Hooters girls to Heartland Park race track and ran it against an old Hemi something. With only the exception of some long straight line bits the loaded minivan spanked the bad boy muscle car.

Yes, technology has advanced. I remember in the mid 80's I started really lerning about cars. 200 HP was a huge amount of power. Only the top engine options in the performance cars could top that. Today 200 HP is what you get in a good economy car with a naturally aspirated 4-cylinder. 300 HP is no big deal. 400 HP can be found on any new car lot without any special options. 400 HP is what a lot of 1-ton truck have. You can get a Caddy with 500 HP for the old man to haul golf clubs around in. 600HP (with a full warranty and emissions wise super clean compared to all that old stuff) can be had at many dealer lots if you pick the right option box. And it drives good enough I could had the keys to my mother and not worry about it.

Redline speeds have been climbing over the past decade as well. For the longest time 5000-5500 RPM was about as fast as a car engine would go. 6000 was really zinging it. Today most every gas engine will turn 6500 without any issues. The 7000 mark is getting even more common. I remember getting my mother's G35 back in '07 and was happily zinging that to the 7500 limit. That was nothing compared to the 9000 RPM Of the S2000. But that is a bit of an oddity and later years lowered the rev limiter. But getting higher RPM levels out of modern engines is another thing we are seeing as well.

So the 3.6 getting that power and RPM levels is just about like any other modern engine. For the most part they are all a bunch of really good running engines. Another aspect to look at is the transmissions. In the 70's and 80's first gear was a weak 2.5:1 range, often with very tall final drive ratios and no overdrives. Today the first gear ratio has dropped to around the 3.5~4.5:1 range, and getting an overdrive. Takes more then 3 gears to spread that range. 5-speed autos are the bread and butter automatics these days. Although 6-speeds are getting more common. I think someone is up to a 9-speed automatic as well. there is also the CVT which has all the ratios although most of the time it isn't in the one you want. How is this, they are putting multi gear transmissions paired with CVT to get an even bigger gear spread. The modern transmission is a very big part of how that modern engine can do the magic it does.

Out of courisoty, what is your regular daily driver? Point of reference makes a huge difference in how good a modern car is.

[Nailhead]

You don't see "impressed" associated with Chrysler around here much.

[PostIt]

The S2000 dropped the rev limit because they upped the displacement from 2.0l to 2.2l... That car sure can handle though!! Whew.. Also have not heard impressed and Chrysler in the same sentence lately..

[Wolfgang55]

Which third world country now owns Chrysler?

[RED CAT]

Never buy any Chrysler product except maybe rear drive V8s.

[A-Bone]

Originally Posted by Carlo Muro

I'm on a 2 week business trip and rented a brand new Dodge Grand Caravan to haul all my gear in. On the way up I thought it felt peppy even with about 500 lbs of electronic gear and other computer crap I had stuffed in it. Once I unloaded all the stuff I was pleasantly surprised just how quick it could be. Rev's to 6500 and is rated 283 SAE NET horsepower.
It can't be a light weight with all the electric doors and other luxuries that Chrysler has saddled it with. While it's not "fast" in the same league as a lot of current cars out there, I can remember some "muscle" cars from years back that I think this van could hang with if not outright spank.
Mileage was not too awful bad either. I averaged just about 23 fully loaded on interstate with a fairly heavy foot.

Still handles like a whale though

I've been eyeing a Jeep Wrangler and I guess now it will have to be a '12 or newer so I can get this engine.

Ahhh the dirty secret: a lot more people like driving a van that you would think...

Just read this article in Automobile magazine... They put it on a track and race it.....

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...41&188,shopper

[Carlo Muro]

Originally Posted by broncobowsher

Out of courisoty, what is your regular daily driver? Point of reference makes a huge difference in how good a modern car is.

R1200GS...which is why I have to "rent" cars to go on business trips that I don't fly to

[Carlo Muro]

Originally Posted by A-Bone

Ahhh the dirty secret: a lot more people like driving a van that you would think...

Just read this article in Automobile magazine... They put it on a track and race it.....

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...41&188,shopper

wow that is serendipity!

[Dave in Wi]

A month or two ago I ended up with a Chrysler 300 as a rental for a business trip. It had the new V6 and 8-speed automatic. I was very impressed with the car. The power was just fine for a 4000 on sedan, when I stood on it, it really moved out. And on a trip of of over 1000 miles I averaged 33 mpg.

I liked it so much I'm considering a Chrysler product for my next car. That's saying something for me, since I've bought nothing but Japanese cars for the last 20 years.

[neanderthal]

Originally Posted by broncobowsher

10 years ago or so there was a show on Speedvision (forgot the name but funny car show based out of Canada)
They took a Chrysler minivan loaded full of Hooters girls to Heartland Park race track and ran it against an old Hemi something. With only the exception of some long straight line bits the loaded minivan spanked the bad boy muscle car.

Yes, technology has advanced. I remember in the mid 80's I started really lerning about cars. 200 HP was a huge amount of power. Only the top engine options in the performance cars could top that. Today 200 HP is what you get in a good economy car with a naturally aspirated 4-cylinder. 300 HP is no big deal. 400 HP can be found on any new car lot without any special options. 400 HP is what a lot of 1-ton truck have. You can get a Caddy with 500 HP for the old man to haul golf clubs around in. 600HP (with a full warranty and emissions wise super clean compared to all that old stuff) can be had at many dealer lots if you pick the right option box. And it drives good enough I could had the keys to my mother and not worry about it.

What is your definition of many dealer lots?
Only Mercedes has "many" cars making over 400hp but that's because they stuff that AMG engine in every bodystyle they sell here in the US. Not counting the exotics like Ferrari and Porsche etc most dealers many only have one or two cars making over 400hp and even then, there's a large number that don't have a single one (Acura, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Honda, Subaru, VW, Fiat, Hyundai, Kia, Lincoln, Volvo, Scion, Smart, Suzuki, and i'm sure i'm missing one or two. Oh, Toyota.) Ford has the Mustang and 6.2 liter trucks, Chrysler the Viper and 300, Jeep the SRT, Dodge the Charger and Challenger. BMW Have a bunch of engines in everything from the 3 series up. Chevy only the Camaro Corvette and pickup, Cadillac the CTS, Audi the RS and S 4/ 5/ 6/ 8. Nissan only the GT-R.
The numbers of high horsepower cars are climbing, on that you are right, but there aren't as many players as you insinuate.

Redline speeds have been climbing over the past decade as well. For the longest time 5000-5500 RPM was about as fast as a car engine would go. 6000 was really zinging it. Today most every gas engine will turn 6500 without any issues. The 7000 mark is getting even more common. I remember getting my mother's G35 back in '07 and was happily zinging that to the 7500 limit. That was nothing compared to the 9000 RPM Of the S2000. But that is a bit of an oddity and later years lowered the rev limiter. But getting higher RPM levels out of modern engines is another thing we are seeing as well.

I've only owned imports and even in my 69 BMW the redline was 6400. From the sixties most German cars other than diesels have been in the 62-6600 rpm range. Japanese cars from the seventies, though some trucks lingered into the 80s. It's really mostly the domestics whose engines had low redlines

So the 3.6 getting that power and RPM levels is just about like any other modern engine. For the most part they are all a bunch of really good running engines. Another aspect to look at is the transmissions. In the 70's and 80's first gear was a weak 2.5:1 range, often with very tall final drive ratios and no overdrives. Today the first gear ratio has dropped to around the 3.5~4.5:1 range, and getting an overdrive. Takes more then 3 gears to spread that range. 5-speed autos are the bread and butter automatics these days. Although 6-speeds are getting more common. I think someone is up to a 9-speed automatic as well. there is also the CVT which has all the ratios although most of the time it isn't in the one you want. How is this, they are putting multi gear transmissions paired with CVT to get an even bigger gear spread. The modern transmission is a very big part of how that modern engine can do the magic it does.

Again, my point of reference is German cars. They typically had a very tall 1st gear to allow for towing in their home countries. In my BMW 2002 I could idle up a gentle slope that my Corolla went backwards on. My Mercedes 300E started off in 2nd gear by design.

I read somewhere that we are nearing the end of the "gear wars" as regards improving fuel efficiency. Most of the gains from now on are going to be from downsizing engines and lightening vehicles with stop/ start becoming almost standard. Pity the EPA fuel consumption test doesn't factor that in on their fuel economy test/ circuit.

Out of courisoty, what is your regular daily driver? Point of reference makes a huge difference in how good a modern car is.

Isn't that the truth....

Going from a little BMW 2002 to a Mercedes E320 was a life changing event. No longer did I have to buy small uncomfortable sports cars. I could buy a bigger car that seemed slower but would blow the doors of just about any small light sports car while getting about the same milage, yet being bigger, roomier, more comfortable, and yes, less involving to drive. Long distance trips are far less harrowing now. 6 hours to Phoenix? No problem. Before it was like wrestling a python, I got out of the car tired and drained. Now 18 hours to Denver or Seattle or El Paso is one sitting with stops only for food, bathroom and fuel.

[LuciferMutt]

You guys are aware of what company technically has controlling ownership of Chrysler these days, right? And ever since that company took the majority ownership of Chrysler how much the quality and reliability of Chrysler products has suddenly improved?



None other than Fiat.

[Range Motorsport]

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

You guys are aware of what company technically has controlling ownership of Chrysler these days, right? And ever since that company took the majority ownership of Chrysler how much the quality and reliability of Chrysler products has suddenly improved?



None other than Fiat.

Fiat currently has one model of their car in production and it's the Dodge Dart. The Pentastar 3.6 was Chryslers design not Fiat's. Chrysler has made good vehicles for years but nobody paid attention to it.

[Nailhead]

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

And ever since that company took the majority ownership of Chrysler how much the quality and reliability of Chrysler products has suddenly improved?

The interior of my '08 Power Wagon could not have been made more hideous. In some areas, Chrysler had nowhere to go but up.

Originally Posted by Range Motorsport

Chrysler has made good vehicles for years but nobody paid attention to it.

I have owned or driven long-term a number of Chrysler vehicles that I've been impressed with-- including the one mentioned above, which has given me very few problems while I've owned it.

Not included are a '98 Neon I had to replace the head gasket in for no apparent reason, and an '07 Caliber that had lousy outward visibility and a delay in the drive-by-wire throttle that made stalls on take-off infuriatingly routine.

[Uneasy Rider]

Aren't they having trouble with the cylinder heads on the new 3.6?