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Old 08-11-2012, 09:47 AM   #16
GmanVic OP
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Now I am going to read HASENWERK's threads as recommended by that PM. Maybe I will change my tune. :-)
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Old 08-11-2012, 05:28 PM   #17
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While you are in there ...............

I got bitten by that when I chewed up a flywheel and starter pumping floodwater out of a drowned R1150R. Because it was mostly an insurance job to tear out the flywheel, it was recommended that I replace the clutch (even though it was good) and the gearbox bearings (even though they were good) and probably some other stuff. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but a specialist was doing the work at the time and my insurer was covering most of the costs.

I should have saved my money. It was a silly thing to do (and pay for) when the removed parts had a LOT of life left. Be very wary of doing the extra stuff unless YOU really think it needs it, or there is hard evidence that is near to worn-out. Most of the 'extras' can be dealt with another day.

Likewise with the box. You either accept what's been told to you and fit it as-is, or walk away from it. Any decent guy would offer some form of guarantee that it is good. If it fails first ride, send it back. That sort of thing. If you ask for that type of 'gentleman's agreement', the seller will usually either not sell because it's suspect, or happily agree to do a deal based on his knowledge that it is actually good. Yes - There is a risk. Yes, it is buyer beware. But ........................... Better than taking a used box and having Step 1 - Strip and inspect and replace!

Your call, and that's all just a personal opinion based on my recent purchases of a second-hand rear drive and drive-shaft, plus a lot of other stuff for different bikes in the past.
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MIXR screwed with this post 08-12-2012 at 02:50 PM
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #18
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Thanks MIXR. That's kind of what I wanted to hear!

I am now also reading the enormous thread on VW clutch in an r1100. I don't expect to improvise that much, but I am wondering if
1. I can get away with just a new clutch disk (maybe even a ceramic one or whatever fancy/better is here),
2. I should buy the whole clutch system, USED to match my used trans (clutch on fleabay from a 2000 rt)
3. I should go to the dealer and trade my firstborn (or some extra organs) for a brand new "clutch kit for 1997 r1100gs" with pressure plate, disk screws, and wherever else it includes.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #19
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Out on a limb

To be honest, I'd consider the whole clutch issue very carefully.

If you have no suspicions that there is anything wrong with the clutch other than the fibre plate being worn, then I would go with that and save money. The worst that could happen is that it won't last as long as you hoped. It's rare for the metal plate to warp or wear out. It may be worn, but won't be worn out. Likewise the spring plate. If the fingers are good and not broken, they don't seem to lose spring pressure that easily. If the clutch had been playing up. diffeent story. Good clutch - Then go with the 'consumable' fibre disk and be done with it.

Now that's just my opinion as a professional aircraft maintainer and as an amatuer BMW oilhead maintainer. There are lots who do the same and stay quiet about it because there are also lots who advise stronly against doing just that. So - Either replace the lot as complete clutch pack, or take a chance on just the fibre plate. Again, only you can make the call as it's your money and your risk.

Doesn't help much, does it?
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MIXR screwed with this post 09-17-2012 at 03:30 AM
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:33 PM   #20
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Thank you MIXR and Jim Moore.
Just rereading the thread here and realized Anton Large-a-der (bless your heart) has already answered this question...in his opinion (of course, for that's all any of us can speak)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
either you just replace the clutch disk (if you determine that the other parts are good, which isn't obvious) or you replace EVERYTHING including the clutch housing.

Personally I wouldn't screw around with replacing just the disk at 88k miles,.
Granted, I am only at 70k miles, but I think I will follow this advice and get a price on the disk and housing as a complete new set. If it is shockingly expensive, I will strongly consider the used set on eBayt. It is out of a newer RT but I am hoping it will fit and work well.

The adventure continues!
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:37 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIXR View Post
Doesn't help much, does it?
Actually, it helps A LOT, MIXR. This is exactly the kind of frank-but-reasoned-opinions that I want to hear. Thanks again!
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:14 PM   #22
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Hello inmates. It's been a while since I've posted here so I thought I would scribble a mini-chapter before laying me down to sleep with Mrs
Gmanvic.

My GS is in my garage, tranny out and looking eerily like some creature bitten in half by a great white.

My RT sold last week so i have the $ to invest.

My used M97 is on its way from SLC, UT thanks to a super nice man who pays attention on ibmwr.org. (see a previous post in this thread). May even arrive this week!

I ordered a new clutch and all the fixins from A&S. I prefer to give my money to local business, but the clutch kit here in Canada was $800 and A&S was $530. Even factoring in shipping and exchange rates it made sense to import it. (I did give the local dealer the opportunity to counter that price but apparently BMW Canada doesn't have the same buying power as BMW USA so pays more for parts...really!?)

I have received and watched Ted's video on "how to lube splines on an r1100rt" which was very useful; I wish I had watched it before taking the bike apart. Regardless, it will make reassembly easier.

I have sone friends who have agreed to help. I am hoping I will be riding in 2 weeks. That may be tricky because I may be away next two weekends...but hey! goals are meant to push us right?!
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:56 AM   #23
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Thanks for documenting your situation; I just bought a '95 R11GS with 78K for the same reason you did - longegevity and reliability - I'm keeping a list of threads like this for future reference.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:20 AM   #24
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Here are the parts I ordered. Should be the compete list, but if not I will update during assembly.

From Private Seller:
Used M97 transmission $400 + $105 to ship

From Beemer boneyard:
Guard Dog Moly GD-525 BBgdmoly2oz 1 15.95 Moly Synthetic Spline Lube Grease, 2oz

Clutch Alignment Tool For BBCPTRK5 1 39.95 All BMW K75/100/1100 and all R850/1100 Bikes (5 Speed Only)


************************************************** *****
From A&S Cycle (Total: $728.02):

1. Quantity: 1 21212325876
SET CLUTCH PARTS
Price: $532.71

2. Quantity: 1 61312306202
NEUTRAL SWITCH
Price: $67.37

3. Quantity: 1 21527659112
PUSH ROD (I was told the old clutch rod wouldn't match the new clutch?)
Price: $47.77

4. Quantity: 1 23211230440
FELT
Price: $4.87

5. Quantity: 6 21211454417
CLUTCH SCREW
Price: $1.98

6. Quantity: 6 21211242377
CLUTCH WASHERS
Price: $0.89

7. Quantity: 1 07119963200
SEAL RING
Price: $0.89

8. Quantity: 1 07119963300
GASKET RING
Price: $0.89

9. Quantity: 1 23121340331
OIL SEAL
Price: $18.22

10. Quantity: 1 23122330135
OIL SEAL
Price: $16.72

11. Quantity: 1 23311340363
SEAL RING
Price: $18.22

12. Quantity: 1 23311341836
O-RING
Price: $3.14

************************************************** **
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:28 AM   #25
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Good for you.....G man.
I did mine in pretty much the same manner as you at 78,000 and now at 91,000 it's still running great....

Good luck and have fun...
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:29 PM   #26
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Here's what the bike looks like right now. Parts start trickling in tomorrow... Hooray!



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Old 09-16-2012, 11:17 PM   #27
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Thanks to Jeff and Rob, got the clutch and trans in tonight.


A few pointers and comments:
- we were not at all clear about the balance marks on the existing flywheel and clutch, and even the new parts, that were well-marked, didn't quite align 120 degrees from each other. Cross your fingers!
- of course the new clutch is installed with new bolts
- what I was reading here and elsewhere led me to think that the stock clutch bolts would not be long enough to pull in the spring, that wasn't the case - we managed to get a few threads on, with two people pressing and one person turning screws. I would have done the long bolts and nuts method but I forgot to buy them and we were working late in the evening
- I couldn't imagine doing this without the clutch alignment tool - it did far more than align, it held everything in place while we bolted it up.
- trans install was certainly easier with 3 people -- one to lift up the battery box and two to manipulate the transmission on and do up a few bolts. Top bolts first.
- the mandrills I made to take the trans off definitely helped align stuff while putting it on, too.
- I hope I moly lubed everything enough but not too much, including clutch spring plate, spline (male and female) and clutch rod. I used a small wire brush to get the moly grease right into the splines. I lubed the rear spline, too, but I think that was premature lubing. :-)
- oh yeah... I almost forgot that I almost forgot to remove the bolt I put through the flywheel (around 11:00 looking from rear) to stop it from turning while torquing the clutch. Wouldn't THAT be a bummer!

Hoping to get it all put together this coming weekend, and be riding again soon!

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Old 09-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #28
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Thumb More Progress

It's good to have good friends with patience, good ideas and experience, and beer.

We got the final drive back in Friday night. We had 3 people working on it most of the evening and wow I couldn't imagine doing it alone.

Here are some of the gotchas and observations:
1. I took the transmission off again because I decided I had been a bit too light on the grease on the spline. I thought it better to do it now... I also discovered I had bought a new seal for the transmission input shaft, so installed that, and a cute little bit of felt around the clutch shaft. I'm sure it all would have been fine, but decided better safe than sorry at this point.

2. Had a bit of a challenge installing the final drive. It wasn't clear in the manuals, or Ted's video, on the order of installation, but NEXT TIME, I think it will be much easier to install the Drive Shaft before the Housing. We put on the housing and then fishing the drive shaft onto the output shaft was a bit tricky. We got it on, but it wasn't on all the way (didn't quite "Snap" into place, so it the FD was about 1/2" out of getting the pivot bolts in)

2.5 I didn't want to take the housing off again (loctite and all that) so managed to get the drive-shaft on through the housing, and then used a block of wood and 6 hands to tap it on until it clicked.

3. The FD had gone on easily the first time, now we had a bugger of it. It turned out it was just a case of getting the smooth "leader" in (using a 3 people and a screwdriver it's not hard) and then, with the trans in gear and two Wheel Bolts in the FD, turn the FD until the splines lined up. (As per the PDF doc "BMW R1100GS: Final Drive Splines Lube") Then it slides right on. We tapped it with a rubber mallet to slide it on.

4. In the process of installing the bearing carrier bolts, the left, rear bolt (one of the ones that take a huge lock-nut, kept winding and winding in, not leaving any threads for the lock-nut to go onto. Upon inspection, I realized I was missing a bearing race cone thingy on the rear inside pivot bolt. Looked through my parts and checked with my cleaning crew and opened another beer...and finally found it where the FD parts had been sitting...on my garage floor. Cleaned and greased it and...took off the FD again to install it. This time it was easy due to the experience above.
Oh, and I did have a challenge because I didn't have a way to put a 1/2 drive socket (the 22mm Hex used for the bearing carriers) onto a 1/4 drive ratchet (my small torque wrench for the 7 Nm needed). I used the large torque wrench but it was (just) off the bottom of the scale and I probably should have just done it hand tight.

That was about 3.5 hours - I know it should have been half that, but it did include taking the trans off and back on again, once, and the FD 3 times...and a whole lotta learning!

Now we are planning a ride next weekend, so I better stop typing and get back to attaching bits. I've just re-watched the last half of Ted's R1100RT spline lube video - man that's useful - and start a list of what remains to be done so I do it in the right order:
I think it will be:
- torque arm
- ABS Sensor
- Rear wheel
- Brake
- Airbox
- starter
- frame
- battery box / battery
- Etc: gadgets and goodies galore.
- Tank
- Test ride slowly.

GmanVic screwed with this post 11-01-2012 at 04:45 PM Reason: typoos
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:32 AM   #29
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And let's not forget...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanVic View Post
I think it will be:
- torque arm
- ABS Sensor
- Rear wheel
- Brake
- Airbox
- starter
- frame
- battery box / battery
- Etc: gadgets and goodies galore.
- Tank
- Test ride slowly.
Oh, and I should add:
- Put oil in the transmisison
- Adjust the new clutch
- After a few days, re-check all torques

Got the rear wheel on yesterday - starting to look like a bike again.

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Old 10-01-2012, 09:20 PM   #30
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Okey dokey. Chipping away at it here, flyin' solo. Just spent about 45 minutes trying to install the little clip that hold the large rubber breather tube (?) to the top right of the airbox. Finally swapped the stock clip for a worm clamp and that was way way easier...

So, I got the airbox in, but runninginto some "order of assembly issues" for sure.

In order to install the airbox I had to drop the shock (it was still attached to the lower swingarm).

Now, to install the shock it looks like I will have to remove the rear wheel again. 2 steps forward, one step back.

If anybody is reading this...any other ordering things I should pay attention to? Brake lines, footpegs, starter, battery, a million wires...

A bit daunting, but it is, in fact, taking shape. Hope to be test-riding before Friday and ride-riding on the weekend.
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