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Old 08-13-2012, 06:39 PM   #31
MikeMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckerdD View Post
Mike Mike you live in a fantasy world fueled by your bad attitude. The 800 is a great bike. If you buy something else, you might feel less of a need to troll here. Dave
Take a look at where I ride, and not on vacation. All the time because it's where I live. Bad attitude? Not really, I have always maintained and always will maintain that the platform of both the F800 and especially the F650 twin is fantastic for the 3rd world. The weaknesses are in the poor quality control of BMW Motorrad and the really poor customer relations they have and not only here in Mexico. If you think a realistic attitude is a bad attitude I can't help you with that. I think Motorrad could have done more with the bike but cut corners in some places.
I've done over 40,000kms on my bike, a mid-year 2009 build, that had a number of recall issues fixed. I know what the bike is capable of and it isn't the F800, in fact, I've only seen KLR's, Africa Twins, GS1150's, GS1200's, one F800 and some F658's in the off road stuff around here. I know of two F800's that didn't make it from Alaska to Patagonia due to alternator problems. The reality is that the F800 hasn't inspired a lot of people to choose it over other possibilities. I've seen two F650's with catastrophic engine failure, and in one case Motorrad coughed up a brand new motor. They are nowhere near as easy to work on as an Africa Twin, nor a GS1150 nor a KLR. I haven't seen a lot of GS1200 late model tear downs. I wasn't able to even get a workshop manual for the bike until 6 months or so after buying it and that wasn't due to any kindness from BMW.
As far as the overheat goes, I regularly ride my bike in temps that range from mountain winter lows here that are below zero and temps well into the 90's. At some times of the year you can ride in over 85f and encounter a temp low of below zero on the same ride, that's what happens in the tropics when you live near the ocean and the highest point in the country is 2 hours away. The F650 is pretty much the same motor as the F800, the cooling systems are the same as far as I know, same for most of the oiling system. Perhaps the oil filter and cooler guard I have fitted had something to do with it? Who knows, but I am glad I have it. I don't ride where there are park rangers and reliable cell service etc..., that's why I mention things like fuel pump controllers and side stand switches and a few things when I talk about this bike in conversation with people. I also sometimes ride alone in these areas and need to realistically think about what I can fix trailside if things get out of shape.
As far as trolling goes...LOL! I am giving a realistic view of ownership of a BMW product that is regularly ridden in the 3rd world in conditions ranging from easy pavement to ridiculous river beds at elevations from sea level to over 14,000ft. The highest mileage F800 I have seen and ridden with had well over 80,000kms on the clock and was at one point used in a bike rental fleet. It ended up with alternator problems and the cam chain was making itself known.
One thing I could never understand is why BMW didn't fit spoked rims that can use a tubeless tire like on the big GS bikes.
So excuse me if I am not toeing the F800 line, but I am hardly trolling. I've got some experience with the strengths and weaknesses of these bikes. That's why my next bike is going to be either a low mileage GS1150 pre-2002 or a KLR. I like the relative ease of maintenance on both. I am presently replacing my fork seals and bushes, the second set of steering bearings, all the wheel bearings, the chain (the original is still good but I am doing it simply because it has some pretty good mileage on it and I don't want to risk a failure, and the sprockets. I'll be changing both brake discs when I do the pads next, I'll be fitting a new clutch within the next 6 or 8 months at the rate things are going. I am waiting, patiently, for what is supposed to be the new design of cam chain tensioner which also is going in for preventive maintenance. Oil changes and filters are done at half the recommended service intervals because of how I use the bike and where I use it. I believe in preventive maintenance and not so heavily in BMW quality.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:08 PM   #32
HighTechCoonass
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Laugh someone needs these....



I gave mine away after I sold the R1150gs because I just knew the final drive would explode at any minute...
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:16 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by CheckerdD View Post
Yup: I made it Reno to Ushuaia Argentina December 14, 11 then Reno to Fairbanks Alaska June 7, 12. One flat tire. One rim dinged and straitened. It's still on the bike with no other issues. Mike Mike you live in a fantasy world fueled by your bad attitude. The 800 is a great bike. If you buy something else, you might feel less of a need to troll here. Dave
I actually own an F800GS and couldn't agree more with Mike Mike.

Over rated.

Over priced

Over engineered

Under thought

Under finished

Under suspicion of being a bike designed primarily for show ponies and wankers.


But I'm bitter and twisted because I paid a lot of money for something that just doesn't cut it.



But that's just an opinion....just like your's. It is the internet after all.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:26 AM   #34
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Hmm. Well, I had a completely setup KLR 685, but for some idiotic reason I sold it. Elevation isn't too much of an issue out here on the East coast.

Maybe a Sertao would be an option. Seems like a refined KLR with about 5-10 more hp yet still retains some simplicity. Haven't seen many, if any, rants about it or the Dakar....
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:35 AM   #35
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Forget the Sertao, get a good well maintained Dakar. Those were damn good bikes, put some money into sorting it out specifically for you and don't look back.
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Old 08-15-2012, 01:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
Forget the Sertao, get a good well maintained Dakar. Those were damn good bikes, put some money into sorting it out specifically for you and don't look back.
I agree. My 800gs is my third BMW and it is the worst bike I have owned. My 2003 Dakar and 2010 XChallenge were better built. BMW just cut too many corners in ithe 800's production. I still like riding it but it has far too many issues for what it cost.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:19 AM   #37
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I agree. My 800gs is my third BMW and it is the worst bike I have owned. My 2003 Dakar and 2010 XChallenge were better built. BMW just cut too many corners in ithe 800's production. I still like riding it but it has far too many issues for what it cost.
+ a bazillionty to the power of a cajillion.

On a lighter note, I spent a morning rubbing my hands all over a KTM 990R in the middle of a KTM store showroom.

It was slow...sensual... rhythmic......sooooo nice....so very very nice......MMmmmmmmm...Orange...Indecent really with all the groaning I was doing.

I now have the cash to get one.

I just have to convince the spouse that the BMW just isn't worth the effort any more. Without actually breaking it (as tempting as that is).

It's as simple as arranging a test ride and taking her for a spin on the KTM. She'll dump that BMW faster than I can say "I've got a headache".

It's gunna be a loooong hot summer. Yeah baby.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:01 AM   #38
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What concerns me more than the 8GS track record...... Is the string of shortys BMW have produced...... Take a look at them.... Several of them have had short production runs...... and with a few.....not because they were really bad bikes....but with for example the X-challenge...Too expensive....with too small of a gas tank. If BMW had a bunch of winners on their hand..... I can/could assure you they would have longer runs, instead of just a few years here and there.
That said... I hopped all over the 990 before buying the 8GS...... Things like overplastic'ed..... 2hr oil change..... poor gas mileage..... got me settled on the 8GS...... True it has issues, and I'm not brushing them off, But I did my homework here on advr before buying, and thus knew about it, and I still pulled the trigger. I was let down by the bike more than once, and it pi$$ed me off, but as strange as it was.....when I got back on it...... the pain went away.. BUT....here is the ticker as I and many have said...... Align yourself with a good dealer first...... If you have a sucker for dealer.....don't buy the bike.....as my dealer have done great for me.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:06 AM   #39
MikeMike
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Align yourself with a good dealer first.....
Very good point.

And try to live in a country where the corporate Motorrad reps actually give a damn about customers. LOL!
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:43 AM   #40
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Mike is definitely not trolling. He's pretty much one of our most knowledgable folks when it comes to riding in Mexico. With that said the most popular bike in Mexico among touring riders seems to be the KLR by far.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:46 AM   #41
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Mike Mike, I do not know the why of your parts problem. I am sure those parts are being installed on new bikes right now. I am also sure your dealer is in the middle of it and the rest is manufactures delivery on demand to cut cost. I understand the US parts are bundled with the automotive delivery system. Maybe there not enough BMW cars in Mexico.

If you are talking with "Customer Service" at BMW Motoraad, you are wasting your time. There is some hierarchy to the service issues. Service rep or some such title. 4 of them in the US, got to be at least one in Mexico. That's the guy you need to get a hold of. Your dealer will know who I am talking about, he is the guy that resolves warranty claims.

Your forks are 41mm, so were the old thumpers. If they are Showa, maybe the bushings and seals will interchange. Check the parts numbers, the singles went through a number of seal changes.

All new bikes have electronics, computers, injectors, etc that are putting them beyond the capabilities of the average backyard mechanic.
Don't want to deal with it, buy old tech. I have one for backup.


As for the BMW being junk. I also looked at the KTM's. They went through all the growing pains. Nobody remembers the clutch issues, leaky slave cylinders, bad fuel pumps? You can wait for KTM parts as easy as BMW parts.

The bike was too heavy and tall for an old man. At the time, they were also $4,000 more. You can afford to put quality parts on the bike with the difference.

One more technical bit. All V twins have a certain cadence to them. They all have off set cranks to accommodate the spacing of the cylinders. They all hook up better because of it. KTM's firing order should be 435/285 degrees. You can mimic the same in a vertical twin. The Husky Nuda has one, that is why I would like to see that in the F800gs.
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itsatdm screwed with this post 08-15-2012 at 10:48 AM
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:31 PM   #42
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Mike Mike, I do not know the why of your parts problem. I am sure those parts are being installed on new bikes right now. I am also sure your dealer is in the middle of it and the rest is manufactures delivery on demand to cut cost. I understand the US parts are bundled with the automotive delivery system. Maybe there not enough BMW cars in Mexico.

If you are talking with "Customer Service" at BMW Motoraad, you are wasting your time. There is some hierarchy to the service issues. Service rep or some such title. 4 of them in the US, got to be at least one in Mexico. That's the guy you need to get a hold of. Your dealer will know who I am talking about, he is the guy that resolves warranty claims.

Your forks are 41mm, so were the old thumpers. If they are Showa, maybe the bushings and seals will interchange. Check the parts numbers, the singles went through a number of seal changes.

All new bikes have electronics, computers, injectors, etc that are putting them beyond the capabilities of the average backyard mechanic.
Don't want to deal with it, buy old tech. I have one for backup.


As for the BMW being junk. I also looked at the KTM's. They went through all the growing pains. Nobody remembers the clutch issues, leaky slave cylinders, bad fuel pumps? You can wait for KTM parts as easy as BMW parts.

The bike was too heavy and tall for an old man. At the time, they were also $4,000 more. You can afford to put quality parts on the bike with the difference.

One more technical bit. All V twins have a certain cadence to them. They all have off set cranks to accommodate the spacing of the cylinders. They all hook up better because of it. KTM's firing order should be 435/285 degrees. You can mimic the same in a vertical twin. The Husky Nuda has one, that is why I would like to see that in the F800gs.
Thanks, all good points.
I don't have the best of relations with the warranty department. When I complained about the finish on my bike after owning it for 6 months, I was told the warranty on the finish on my bike was invalid because I live near the ocean.
Yes, you can imagine what I said about that.
Personally, I think Motorrad are up to something. I believe there is some renegotiating going on with current suppliers, some consolidation of world wide parts service, some sly redesigns like the air filter due to original poor engineering, and the mysterious departure of David Robb from the corporate team.
The Pirate is right about the KLR riders, you'll see more of them getting through thick and thin than you ever will F800 or F650GS riders. I don't know KTM's, but I believe Snowy rides somewhat like I do, and I trust his opinion and he doesn't pull any punches.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:01 AM   #43
Snowy
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As for the BMW being junk. I also looked at the KTM's. They went through all the growing pains. Nobody remembers the clutch issues, leaky slave cylinders, bad fuel pumps? You can wait for KTM parts as easy as BMW parts.
Absolutely. You are entirely 100% correct.

But KTM fixed the issues over the life of the model????



See where I'm going here?


Unless we actually say something other than "Thank you sir, please may I have another" every time they sell us shit, they'll continue to sell us shit.

My message to BMW is simple.

Fix it or fuck off.

Sticking with dumb ideas for dumb reasons cost you 2 world wars. (I'm picturing John Clease "Don't mention the war...")

Time to rethink things. Doing the same thing the same way more than once and expecting different results is the definition of stupidity. Or the next model in the BMW line up.
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Old 08-16-2012, 02:35 AM   #44
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If KTM are so good at fixing problems why haven't they done something about the riduculous side stand/cracked crankcase problem ?

It's only been nine years after all !
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:57 AM   #45
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If KTM are so good at fixing problems why haven't they done something about the riduculous side stand/cracked crankcase problem ?

It's only been nine years after all !
No one I've seen or talked to that owns one has had it happen. Coincidentally, they all reckon they ride em hard core. Crusty Demons style all the way.

So, by shear BMW owner logic, that means it can't possibly happen, it isn't an issue, never was an issue, and it doesn't matter if they don't fix it.


Yes, I'm in one of "those" moods.

My son worked in a KTM dealer and when I asked him he said "I call bullshit. If it's been a problem that long I would have got at least one with the number we sold, or at least someone would have had a sook about the possibility of it happening".

So there you have it.

Maybe the owners just ride them "real hard core"? Or maybe it's another internet myth? Who knows? Who cares?

Doesn't fix my BMW now...does it?
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