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Old 04-25-2013, 07:46 AM   #181
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The market can only set stagnant for so long before buyers become disinterested and continue to stick with what they already have (see auto market). I think Yamaha is close to where they want to be as they offer more high end products than the others at a reasonable price. I think that Suzuki and Kawasaki are way behind the times. You can't keep offering the same product year after year with absolutely no advancement. Suzuki is a failing company in the USA. Kawasaki has great marketing and that has helped them a ton but their products as a whole are outdated. Not saying that the products like the Versys, and the rest of the 650 based bikes are not great because they are but when you look at their quality compared to the Yamaha there is no way you would say they are on the same level. Yamaha is the leader as far as an Asian manufacture that can appeal to the American buyer as a whole. They still offer 2-stroke dirt bikes, they have great Wave-Runner, they have Star bikes (custom as well), they manufacture large bikes that appeal to large countries where you can ride for great distances, and are a large engine manufacture for some incredible US cars. Now don't get me wrong, I understand that Yamaha has the WR250R which has been unchanged since 2008 but they have no competition. Other than that bike they are pushing technology more than the others from an enthusiast standpoint not a world market stand point. While Honda is busy developing scooter like products to capture a demographic that in the USA is here today gone tomorrow, they are loosing grip with the core buyer which will be there as a supporter to the end.
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Originally Posted by trainman View Post
Say what you want about the little Honda, but don't you think that Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha now wish they had a world selling bike like the CRF250L for $4499.00. Honda has probably sold more of the new CRF250L's then the other three manufactures combined have sold in the 250's enduro market over the last five years. This is not a knock on the WR250R, it's a nice bike and it's $2300.00 more then the CRF250L and from what I see it's probably worth it. Do you think that Honda was looking at the bike to beat the WR, or the bottom line on the company P&L sheet.

John
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:49 AM   #182
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Say what you want about the little Honda, but don't you think that Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha now wish they had a world selling bike like the CRF250L for $4499.00. Do you think that Honda was looking at the bike to beat the WR, or the bottom line on the company P&L sheet.

John
I doubt that the CRF250L is really hurting WR250R sales. As this thread demonstrates, they really have two different target audiences. It would cost a lot more than the $2,300 price difference to cut 20 pounds off the Honda and give it WR250R quality suspension.

The bike that Honda is absolutely killing is Yamaha's XT250. At $5,100 it now seems vastly overpriced compared to the Honda. For someone who values light weight and the simplicity of air cooling the XT will still have followers, but that's a pretty narrow niche.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:05 AM   #183
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Well said! The XT is out!

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Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
I doubt that the CRF250L is really hurting WR250R sales. As this thread demonstrates, they really have two different target audiences. It would cost a lot more than the $2,300 price difference to cut 20 pounds off the Honda and give it WR250R quality suspension.

The bike that Honda is absolutely killing is Yamaha's XT250. At $5,100 it now seems vastly overpriced compared to the Honda. For someone who values light weight and the simplicity of air cooling the XT will still have followers, but that's a pretty narrow niche.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:08 PM   #184
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Really enjoying the unbiased personal experiences shared on this thread. Honda with its vast resources could have made a real run at the WRR, but ultimately, it didn't and that's main takeaway the people's like myself needed.
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Old 07-21-2013, 12:40 PM   #185
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Been a while since a reply but thanks for the great info (im catching up!). Thinking of getting one of these 2 "for my 12 yr old daughter" so the Honda would make more sense for her, but I'd prob love both ,leaning toward the Yamaha. Great info. Bg
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Old 07-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #186
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The CRF250L

Just a quick update. The turd that is the CRF250L is now someone eles to wipe. lol SOLD IT and glad to see it go. What is funny is we replaced it with a CBR250 and a CRF150R. Don't want to get off on a tangent but a quick summery is fun right? The CFR150R is bad ass and perfect for my wife. She is so fast on it! Well, more darty than anything. If we were to play pin the tail on the donkey so to speak, I would loose! The CBR250 is a totally different bike than that of the CRF250L. I run the hell out of that bike. I have been driving it to work most days. After work I go to my wife's work and pick up her car to go pick up the kids and she rides her bike home. It is a great shared bike. I am getting 77mpg and I drive it as hard as I can. We have about 2000 miles on it now and are having a great time with it. Absolutely perfect for our needs. Sure she has to have two different bikes but the reality is that no one makes a great DS for a 113 lbs 5'4" girl. We are happy. Also added the brand new WR450F to the garage and am in love. If you have any questions about it just ask!
The WR250R is still my favorite overall bike that I have owned to date. That is saying something as I think I have owned well over 40 and I am 35 so I have a good idea what is out there. I am excited for the KTM390 and KTM1190 Adventure to come to the USA. I think they are getting there shit together. Glad to see they are making some great strides in the durability department. Now they need to get a better dealer network and you may see a guy who once said "never" riding a 390 lol. Only time will tell.
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Old 07-22-2013, 09:19 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by ggamster View Post
Just a quick update. The turd that is the CRF250L is now someone eles to wipe. lol SOLD IT and glad to see it go. What is funny is we replaced it with a CBR250 and a CRF150R. Don't want to get off on a tangent but a quick summery is fun right? The CFR150R is bad ass and perfect for my wife. She is so fast on it! Well, more darty than anything. If we were to play pin the tail on the donkey so to speak, I would loose! The CBR250 is a totally different bike than that of the CRF250L. I run the hell out of that bike. I have been driving it to work most days. After work I go to my wife's work and pick up her car to go pick up the kids and she rides her bike home. It is a great shared bike. I am getting 77mpg and I drive it as hard as I can. We have about 2000 miles on it now and are having a great time with it. Absolutely perfect for our needs. Sure she has to have two different bikes but the reality is that no one makes a great DS for a 113 lbs 5'4" girl. We are happy. Also added the brand new WR450F to the garage and am in love. If you have any questions about it just ask!
The WR250R is still my favorite overall bike that I have owned to date. That is saying something as I think I have owned well over 40 and I am 35 so I have a good idea what is out there. I am excited for the KTM390 and KTM1190 Adventure to come to the USA. I think they are getting there shit together. Glad to see they are making some great strides in the durability department. Now they need to get a better dealer network and you may see a guy who once said "never" riding a 390 lol. Only time will tell.
Thanks for the first hand experience perspective. It is rare to get an opinion from someone that has actually owned both bikes.

I was looking forward to the crf250l but it seems that by the time you do exhaust and fueling mods, you are closing in on the wr250r price without the benefit of the wr's suspension. I think the crf250 will fill a great niche and get more people into the sport but it probably isn't worth moving from a klx to a crf. What made it so turd like besides the weight and suspension? You also mentioned that it felt lighter to pick up, still feel that way after more time on the bike?
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:31 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by ntm1973 View Post
Thanks for the first hand experience perspective. It is rare to get an opinion from someone that has actually owned both bikes.

I was looking forward to the crf250l but it seems that by the time you do exhaust and fueling mods, you are closing in on the wr250r price without the benefit of the wr's suspension. I think the crf250 will fill a great niche and get more people into the sport but it probably isn't worth moving from a klx to a crf. What made it so turd like besides the weight and suspension? You also mentioned that it felt lighter to pick up, still feel that way after more time on the bike?
We also have a 2009 KLX. The CRF250L is a comparable bike, just a better deal. I don't think you would notice enough difference to justify the move if you go from a good condition KLX to a CRF. They are similar. The WR would be a great step up but still keep a familiar feeling. You had made mention of the exhaust, fuel mods, and suspension, but please don't forget that a bike is a sum of its' parts. Meaning that they are not going to put crap suspension on a bike but give you the best brakes money can buy. Just like on a mountain bike. You would never see a $4000 wheel set on a base model bike. The reason why is that it is dumb to upgrade a bike that no matter how much money you put into it, it will never be as good as the bike that comes with the better parts from the factory. A cheap bikes is just that CHEAP! Every part of a $4500 motorcycle is of that level. It is rare that you will find a cheap bike with a great frame but crap everything else or suspension or wheels or any other component. You will never upgrade a CRF250L to be better than a WR250R without spending a more money than what it would cost to buy the WR in the first place. I'm not saying that you can't make the CRF better than the WR but I am saying that you will spend a ton of money and never have what you really want.

As far as the "TURD" statement. This is a subjective category but I feel an important one. You know, you read all of these reviews in magazines about bikes, they seldom can portray the soul of a bike. The CRF250L just feels like a lot of parts doing the work they are supposed to do. The WR feels like the bike has some spirit. Almost like that movie "The Dirt Bike Kid". It had that boy in it from "A Christmas Story". Anyway, he buys this bike and the more he takes care of it the more the bikes helps him ride better, more or less.

Now for the ease to pick the bike up. It was easier when we had the bike lowered and maybe slightly easier when ant the normal ride height. I would not make a buying decision based on it however.

Thanks for reading

Grant Gamster
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:29 AM   #189
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My wife and I are getting ready to take our WRR and CRF out to CO/UT for 2 weeks while we ride the COBDR and UTBDR. It will be interesting to see how they both perform. I'm really enjoying the WRR and my wife has been really enjoying her CRF. We actually just sold her XT225 as she decided she'd no longer be riding it as she likes the CRF too much. My WRR has 11k miles (7800 when I bought it) and my wife's CRF has a bit over 1500 miles.

We outfitted both bikes with TCI's Denali rack. We had the Sequoia rack on my wife's XT225 and my Husky TE610 and really liked them. The Denali's are very similar, just have a straight side support instead of angled. Since IMS has not come out with the 3+gal tank they have been promising for months for the CRF, we had to resort to picking up a 1.5gal Kolpin for the back of the CRF. It worked out great as TCI sells a bracket to mount the Kolpin right to the back of their TCI rack's. I have the IMS 4.75gal tank on my WRR, so no problem there for fuel.

We also finally removed the crap stock tires from the CRF and fitted a set of the Trackmaster II's. I also dropped the CRF to a 13t front sprocket. My wife wasn't complaining about the gearing, but I think she'll enjoy the lower gearing out there for sure. Right now, the CRF is still completely stock fuel & exhaust wise. No programmer or anything and my wife is happy with it like that, so I plan to leave it that way.

My WRR was fitted with new MT21/D606 tires along with a change from 13/45 gearing to 13/49 gearing and a new slider guide as that is a wear item on those bikes. At just under 11k miles, I had almost worn through to the chain slider to the swingarm. I jacked up the ride height since I'm 6'4 and raised the preload in anticipation for the extra weight I'll be carrying. Now I actually can't flat foot the WRR! :eek:

Along with us on this trip will be another WRR setup very close to how mine is with my buddy riding it and his brother is riding a CRF250L that has lots of add on goodies like exhaust, fuel programmer, suspension, etc. Finally, the 5th bike will be a Super Sherpa ridden by my buddies gf. That will be the only non FI bike in our group of 5.

I'll report back when we return how both WRR's and CRF's did on the trip!
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:50 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLghtning View Post
My wife and I are getting ready to take our WRR and CRF out to CO/UT for 2 weeks while we ride the COBDR and UTBDR. It will be interesting to see how they both perform. I'm really enjoying the WRR and my wife has been really enjoying her CRF. We actually just sold her XT225 as she decided she'd no longer be riding it as she likes the CRF too much. My WRR has 11k miles (7800 when I bought it) and my wife's CRF has a bit over 1500 miles.

We outfitted both bikes with TCI's Denali rack. We had the Sequoia rack on my wife's XT225 and my Husky TE610 and really liked them. The Denali's are very similar, just have a straight side support instead of angled. Since IMS has not come out with the 3+gal tank they have been promising for months for the CRF, we had to resort to picking up a 1.5gal Kolpin for the back of the CRF. It worked out great as TCI sells a bracket to mount the Kolpin right to the back of their TCI rack's. I have the IMS 4.75gal tank on my WRR, so no problem there for fuel.

We also finally removed the crap stock tires from the CRF and fitted a set of the Trackmaster II's. I also dropped the CRF to a 13t front sprocket. My wife wasn't complaining about the gearing, but I think she'll enjoy the lower gearing out there for sure. Right now, the CRF is still completely stock fuel & exhaust wise. No programmer or anything and my wife is happy with it like that, so I plan to leave it that way.

My WRR was fitted with new MT21/D606 tires along with a change from 13/45 gearing to 13/49 gearing and a new slider guide as that is a wear item on those bikes. At just under 11k miles, I had almost worn through to the chain slider to the swingarm. I jacked up the ride height since I'm 6'4 and raised the preload in anticipation for the extra weight I'll be carrying. Now I actually can't flat foot the WRR! :eek:

Along with us on this trip will be another WRR setup very close to how mine is with my buddy riding it and his brother is riding a CRF250L that has lots of add on goodies like exhaust, fuel programmer, suspension, etc. Finally, the 5th bike will be a Super Sherpa ridden by my buddies gf. That will be the only non FI bike in our group of 5.

I'll report back when we return how both WRR's and CRF's did on the trip!
Wow! I am so envious of your adventure! I can't wait to hear how the trip goes. We are thinking about Baja next summer but having a hard time finding a CRF150R for my wife to rent out there and it is $800 to ship it!!! We may have to but still looking at options. Please get back with us ASAP about the adventure!
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:48 PM   #191
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While I realize this thread is a little dated, thanks to the OP for the information. I have been debating getting a DS bike and this helps narrow down some models to look at. Can anyone tell me how long Yamaha has been making the WRr? And what,if any, updates have been made over the years? I would have to go used so I would like to know how far back I should search on the Yamaha.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:03 PM   #192
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While I realize this thread is a little dated, thanks to the OP for the information. I have been debating getting a DS bike and this helps narrow down some models to look at. Can anyone tell me how long Yamaha has been making the WRr? And what,if any, updates have been made over the years? I would have to go used so I would like to know how far back I should search on the Yamaha.
You are very welcome. The wr came out in 2008. No real revisions other than a better fuel pump in the later models. Still my favorite bike to date. I saw one the other day with 67,000 miles on the original engine!
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:17 PM   #193
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I know this post is old, but I'm brand spanking new here! Hello everybody!

In the market for a dual sport, and like many others have probably narrowed it down to one of these 2. The KLX250S is out because it is carbed, the Huskys are out because of patchy dealer support and the EXC-F 350 is out because it is too expensive.

I moved to Vancouver from England a couple of years ago where I had owned a couple of sports bikes, but with the crazy high insurance over 400cc and crazy low speed limits decided I ought to get something else. Bought a 2007 DRZ400SM and never really liked it. I didn't mind that it was slow, but it just felt clunky and agricultural and overweight/underpowered. And the damn thing would never start (hence my desire for FI). I considered putting 17" knobbies on it and trying it out off road but ended up selling it. Now I am bikeless and regretting that sale, but figured that DIRT and OFFROAD is where all the fun is! I'm not new to bikes but I am totally new to dirt, so I figure at this stage I don't need the aforementioned KTM, or a CRF250X or some crazy light 2 stroke smoker etc...

So...if I didn't like the DRZ, would I struggle with the WR or the CRF?
Will the no-starting-problems FI bikes restore my faith in little thumpers?
Anyone in Vancouver got one and wanna lemme have a quick go ?!

If anyone has any insight comparing the DRZ to either of these 2 bikes, that would be great to hear, particularly the OP as he went from liking the CRF to hating the 'turd' of a bike!

Cheers,
fatneck

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Old 04-10-2014, 06:03 AM   #194
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The Good News Is You Can't Go Wrong Between These Two Bikes

I would not overthink the decision between the two bikes. One really can't go wrong either way. I also have both bikes. Yes the WR plastics are a "little" more durable but our WR also has a bit of broken plastic and missing turn signals. The CRF has such great even power even stock (the WR has great power up top but a little slow off the line). Both bikes' off road performance improves with a 13t sprocket up front.

I need to try the DRZ as folks report it is too heavy. I would try to get a good deal on a 250 and see if it works for me. It can always be traded a year down the line for not much depreciation if it is not busted up too bad. I hope you find a few bikes to ride, nothing beats a test drive.

And yes, Fuel injection and electric start are REALY nice to have.
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Old 04-10-2014, 05:22 PM   #195
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I would not overthink the decision between the two bikes. One really can't go wrong either way. I also have both bikes. Yes the WR plastics are a "little" more durable but our WR also has a bit of broken plastic and missing turn signals. The CRF has such great even power even stock (the WR has great power up top but a little slow off the line). Both bikes' off road performance improves with a 13t sprocket up front.

I need to try the DRZ as folks report it is too heavy. I would try to get a good deal on a 250 and see if it works for me. It can always be traded a year down the line for not much depreciation if it is not busted up too bad. I hope you find a few bikes to ride, nothing beats a test drive.

And yes, Fuel injection and electric start are REALY nice to have.
Cool, thanks for the feedback, and agreed on the FI and electric start!
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