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Old 08-28-2013, 11:29 AM   #1126
Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherBart View Post
Saying that you should buy a new vehicle to avoid high maintenance costs is like all the people that traded in their big SUVs at a big loss to buy compact cars when gas prices started to go up. The very definition of false economy.
Depends on the vehicle. And the other costs of having your vehicle in for maintenance. ("uh, yeah, boss, I'm not going to be able to make it in today, my cars in the shop." "Yes. Again." ... )

Large trucking companies keep their tractors until the warranty runs out, then they sell/lease 'em to owner or lease operators. Undoubtedly, these companies running 5-10,000 Class 8 tractors, which are putting 100-200k+ miles per year on most tractors, are losing money hand over fist because of their "false economy."
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:09 PM   #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada View Post

Large trucking companies keep their tractors until the warranty runs out, then they sell/lease 'em to owner or lease operators. Undoubtedly, these companies running 5-10,000 Class 8 tractors, which are putting 100-200k+ miles per year on most tractors, are losing money hand over fist because of their "false economy."
Your exemple uses a TOOL used to generate money where downtimes are not an option. I think we are talking about personnal transportation here.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:58 PM   #1128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada View Post
Depends on the vehicle. And the other costs of having your vehicle in for maintenance. ("uh, yeah, boss, I'm not going to be able to make it in today, my cars in the shop." "Yes. Again." ... )

Large trucking companies keep their tractors until the warranty runs out, then they sell/lease 'em to owner or lease operators. Undoubtedly, these companies running 5-10,000 Class 8 tractors, which are putting 100-200k+ miles per year on most tractors, are losing money hand over fist because of their "false economy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
Your exemple uses a TOOL used to generate money where downtimes are not an option. I think we are talking about personnal transportation here.
More importantly, those outfits replace their equipment that often in large part because of the tax benefits. They replace them because they're fully depreciated, not because they're suddenly going to fall apart the day after the warranty expires. Personal vehicles aren't a write off for most of us, so the math doesn't work the same.

Like GSF said, keep up with preventative maintenance and almost any car made within the last 10 years (and probably more) will last for 200,000 plus miles without requiring repairs that cost as much as buying a new car. Some people like driving newer vehicles and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's silly trying to justify buying a new or newer car every five years on the basis of it costing less than keeping the old one.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:56 AM   #1129
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Part of driving older cars is having more than one. Which is fine if you need more than one. Just gives you a bit more flexibility.

Also the ability to do much of your own maintenance (even if YOU don't do it) is imperative. That or have a shop that you absolutely trust to make correct, needed repairs.

My lowest mile cage is 125000 miles on a 2001 and highest is 232000 on a 1990.

I'd drive any of my cars anywhere.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:02 PM   #1130
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Add in the freedom to NOT have comprehensive insurance.

Don't know how many of my friends had to learn the hard away about driving nice cars when they were young and paying LOADS for full coverage - usually because it was financed - or just because of the "can't afford to lose it" factor.

There is an old-money rule that says "If you can afford to lose it, don't insure it." - and of course you need to have liability coverage, but owning vehicles you don't have to spend and extra grand or two a year on sure is nice when you are on a budget.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:01 PM   #1131
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Fucking idiotic service writer.
I just got back from the dealership, where we got a '12 Impreza. My wife wanted the pre-paid maintenance, and I didn't want to argue. So the dealer changes the oil and rotates the tires.

I said to the service writer: A few days ago, it made a hellish squealing noise for 1/4 mile (I stopped to check it out and was close to home, so I drove on). I'm 99% sure it was a small rock between the rotor and pad on the passenger side. Please have the guys inspect the rotor, pad and caliper for damage.

When we got it back, the gal at the window informed us that the tech couldn't reproduce the squealing noise.
Isn't "writer" part of a service writer's title? Can they fucking write?

SW tells me a big line of crap about how I need to change my oil every 5,000, even though Subaru says 7,500. Claims that my driving is "severe duty", but doesn't ask me what my driving is like, or where I drive. She says that commuting in the Bay Area (we don't commute) is severe duty.

Pure lies and bullshit. Subaru doesn't say that city driving is severe duty, only frequent towing, lots of dirt roads and lots of short trips are severe duty.

Me: After my last oil change (at 7,500) I had to add a quart 6,500 miles later. Do you think the oil consumption is going to stop soon? Will I be able to go 7,500 without adding a quart.

SW: Subaru says 1,000 miles per quart is within spec.

Don't answer the question, deflect and say "they all do that".

And I wonder why I hate dealerships.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherBart View Post
More importantly, those outfits replace their equipment that often in large part because of the tax benefits. They replace them because they're fully depreciated, not because they're suddenly going to fall apart the day after the warranty expires.
Nope. The depreciation on trucks is 5 years. The big companies are replacing their trucks a lot quicker than that.


Quote:
Personal vehicles aren't a write off for most of us, so the math doesn't work the same.
True, but people making the "keep it forever" very rarely consider the costs that cannot be easily quantified when they make their argument. A big company can calculate the cost of downtime. When considering the cost of maintenance, do you include your cost in time? Just because you don't include it doesn't mean you don't incur it (if the Garage Gnomes take care of maintenance for you, then "never mind"). Do you include the cost of alternate transportation? How much is it REALLY going to cost you to have your sister-in-law (who doesn't like you much) take you to work for two days while your car is being fixed? What's the math on that?


Quote:
Like GSF said, keep up with preventative maintenance and almost any car made within the last 10 years (and probably more) will last for 200,000 plus miles without requiring repairs that cost as much cash out of pocket as buying a new car.
Clarified that for ya.

Quote:
But it's silly trying to justify buying a new or newer car every five years on the basis of it costing less than keeping the old one.
It can, and usually will be, silly from a simple economic standpoint to do so. But not always, which is the only point I'm trying to make. A more complete and sophisticated assessment may determine that a new/late model can save money. Certainly the average fix vs replace point has a lot more miles on the odometer and hours out of the factory than was once the case, and folks still thinking along the lines of cars from the 40s thru 60s are going to be replacing perfectly good cars earlier than a their reputed criteria would demand. Which is okay by me, because it means more better condition used cars for me to pick from.

To be clear, I bought my truck used. It had 5 years and almost 50k on it. In the two years since, I've put another 14k on it. I expect to have it for another 5-10 years. In the past, I have also lost jobs and have experienced other meaningful trials and tribulations because my vehicle broke down. What SST said about having multiple vehicles is true, because without a backup, penny wise can suddenly turn very, very pound foolish.

( hmmmm, multiple registrations, insurance, periodic maintenance... aka higher costs. Not to mention the cost for someplace to park the multiple vehicles.... How many folks include these costs in their calculations? )
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #1133
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A quart every 1,000 miles
My 88 Samurai doesn't use that and it has about 140K on it.

I'm 9K miles into a 10K service interval on my Tundra and it's still at the full mark.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
...
SW tells me a big line of crap about how I need to change my oil every 5,000, even though Subaru says 7,500. Claims that my driving is "severe duty", but doesn't ask me what my driving is like, or where I drive. She says that commuting in the Bay Area (we don't commute) is severe duty.

Pure lies and bullshit. Subaru doesn't say that city driving is severe duty, only frequent towing, lots of dirt roads and lots of short trips are severe duty.
...
They all do that! (service people that is.) Had a Honda Service Manager tell me that heat and humidity in Louisiana is severe service and requires 3000-mile oil and filter changes (at the dealer of course). I show him the owner's manual where it defined severe service as "Extremely dusty" or "Lots of short trips in very cold weather" and indicated that severe service required halving the 7500-mile oil change interval and 15000-mile filter change interval (so 3750-miles minimum.) He inisted he was correct irregardless.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:36 PM   #1135
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Originally Posted by WVhillbilly View Post
A quart every 1,000 miles
My 88 Samurai doesn't use that and it has about 140K on it.

I'm 9K miles into a 10K service interval on my Tundra and it's still at the full mark.
The Sube uses 0-20, so it doesn't surprise me that it went through a quart when it was new. Needing another one makes me wonder. I assume that this interval I won't need to add one.

The SW is just lying, to line her pocket. Pure and simple greed, and piss-poor service. I'm not sure if it's worth my energy to contact her boss (who probably tells her to sell extra service). I usually get a satisfaction survey from Subaru after a service, and the dealership asks that we give them all positive marks; they obviously get something from corporate for positive reviews.
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:53 PM   #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
...
SW tells me a big line of crap about how I need to change my oil every 5,000, even though Subaru says 7,500. Claims that my driving is "severe duty", but doesn't ask me what my driving is like, or where I drive. She says that commuting in the Bay Area (we don't commute) is severe duty.

Pure lies and bullshit. Subaru doesn't say that city driving is severe duty, only frequent towing, lots of dirt roads and lots of short trips are severe duty.

Me: After my last oil change (at 7,500) I had to add a quart 6,500 miles later. Do you think the oil consumption is going to stop soon? Will I be able to go 7,500 without adding a quart.

SW: Subaru says 1,000 miles per quart is within spec.

Don't answer the question, deflect and say "they all do that".

And I wonder why I hate dealerships.
Commuting in the Bay Area is considered severe duty (living in coastal areas, as well as short distance driving are both considered severe per Subaru).

Subaru says more than 1 quart per 1,200 miles is high, so he's pretty much close on that point.

I think most people don't read their owners/warranty manuals, or don't understand them. I'm not picking on you, or saying you don't, but most people. What your service writer said was in fact true, per Subaru.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #1137
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Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Commuting in the Bay Area is considered severe duty (living in coastal areas, as well as short distance driving are both considered severe per Subaru).
OK but what if he don't commute with this car? Is it still a relevant answer? Living in coastal area alone is considered sever duty, really? Living in Quebec, with our winters, should be considered as extraordinary severe duty then.

"Claims that my driving is "severe duty", but doesn't ask me what my driving is like, or where I drive. She says that commuting in the Bay Area (we don't commute) is severe duty."

Quote:
Subaru says more than 1 quart per 1,200 miles is high, so he's pretty much close on that point.
If "more" than 1 quart per 1200 miles is "high", what exactly 1 quart per 1000 miles is? Still normal? High? Super high?

"Within spec" is the easy lazy answer, "1 quart per 6500 miles isn't abnormal per specs" would have been a good answer. Since when does a SW only have to be "close" in his/her answers to a customer?
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:21 PM   #1138
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Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
OK but what if he don't commute with this car? Is it still a relevant answer? Living in coastal area alone is considered sever duty, really? Living in Quebec, with our winters, should be considered as extraordinary severe duty then.

"Claims that my driving is "severe duty", but doesn't ask me what my driving is like, or where I drive. She says that commuting in the Bay Area (we don't commute) is severe duty."



If "more" than 1 quart per 1200 miles is "high", what exactly 1 quart per 1000 miles is? Still normal? High? Super high?

"Within spec" is the easy lazy answer, "1 quart per 6500 miles isn't abnormal per specs" would have been a good answer. Since when does a SW only have to be "close" in his/her answers to a customer?
Yes, per the manual, "living in coastal areas" is considered severe duty. I'm not making this up. Again, read the manual, it says driving in extremely cold weather is severe service. Maybe that's Quebec. You'd know better than me.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:25 PM   #1139
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Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
The Sube uses 0-20, so it doesn't surprise me that it went through a quart when it was new. Needing another one makes me wonder. I assume that this interval I won't need to add one.

The SW is just lying, to line her pocket. Pure and simple greed, and piss-poor service. I'm not sure if it's worth my energy to contact her boss (who probably tells her to sell extra service). I usually get a satisfaction survey from Subaru after a service, and the dealership asks that we give them all positive marks; they obviously get something from corporate for positive reviews.
Tundra uses 0-20 too, that stuff looks scary thin to me.
I'm used to old stuff and race engines running 20-50
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:38 PM   #1140
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Commuting in the Bay Area is considered severe duty (living in coastal areas, as well as short distance driving are both considered severe per Subaru).
As I previously stated, we don't commute. We also have frequent trips of at least 5 to 10 miles, so I don't consider us to be short distance drivers. When I go to SF, I drive to BART (7 miles). When I buy groceries, I drive at least 5 miles. When I pick up my wife at BART, it's 14 miles. She will sometimes drive to the bus stop, which is a short trip (about a mile).

Coastal living is considered to be severe duty, but not for oil life; only fuel systems, brakes, and such.

The SW told me that my driving was severe duty, without asking anything about how we drive.

Quote:
Subaru says more than 1 quart per 1,200 miles is high, so he's pretty much close on that point.
That isn't the question I asked her. I said "I've been going through a quart, do you think it will stop?" Her answer was "Up to a quart/1,000 is OK".

I didn't ask "is it OK or normal", I asked if it would stop as the engine broke in.

Quote:
I think most people don't read their owners/warranty manuals, or don't understand them. I'm not picking on you, or saying you don't, but most people. What your service writer said was in fact true, per Subaru.
I have my manual in front of me.
She's either ignorant or lying.
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