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Old 09-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #1171
MJS
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Honz and the staff at Gateway are just a bunch of great people that love motorcycles. At so many dealers the staff all make an run for the door at closing time. At Gateway they shut the door and the staff will hang around for a beer and just to kick back and BS. I've been lucky enough to get to hang out with them a few times.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:09 AM   #1172
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Originally Posted by PFFOG View Post
Once I went synthetic back in the 80's I changed the oil in my cars about every 15K miles. And I ran the crap out of them, 2 liter turbos, that I had running with water/alcohol injection so I could run close to 28psi boost, putting down in the neighborhood of 300 hp without detonation. Later years they also pulled my 6x10 enclosed trailer with 3 motorcycles at times, would run hours at 5-7 lbs boost, that is aircraft duty!

And all three of them were retired at close to 300K miles, not due to mechanical issues, but rust as I live 20 miles from one of the worlds largest salt mines and they spread salt inches thick when it gets slippery.
If I get your point (my english comprehension sucks), we are saying the same thing. Engine longevity does't depend on close oil changes, if you use quality oil.
I'm suprised by the manufacturers' indications, and the different indication the same manufacturer asks for the same engine whether it's sold in Europe or in the USA.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #1173
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Originally Posted by Salzig View Post
If I get your point (my english comprehension sucks), we are saying the same thing. Engine longevity does't depend on close oil changes, if you use quality oil.
I'm suprised by the manufacturers' indications, and the different indication the same manufacturer asks for the same engine whether it's sold in Europe or in the USA.
I had never known about the difference, I'm also surprised by it. I would assume that any stress on the car would be similar.

Perhaps there is an oil quality difference? Our EPA regulates everything it can here in the USA, including oil additives. There are quite a few additives that are supposed to be good for a motor that are limited here.

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #1174
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I think we use the same JASO / API classifications
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #1175
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Perhaps there is an oil quality difference? Our EPA regulates everything it can here in the USA, including oil additives. There are quite a few additives that are supposed to be good for a motor that are limited here.
Yes there is a quality difference. The oil is better and costs more. The customers expect to pay more and run the oil much longer.

The EPA does not regulate additives. It does regulate what comes out of the exhaust, and certain additives kill catalytic converters. There are other additives that do the same job of engine protection, sometimes better, but cost the oil companies more.

In addition to the JASO, API, and ILSAC standards, the auto makers may have their own sets of oil standards. GM's dexos standards are one example. The Japanese motorcycle makers use the JASO 4t four stroke engine standard and the MA wet clutch standard, as well as API standards. I don't know if the European makers have their own standards. If so, it would be in the owner's manual or sticker on the bike--"Oil of xW-xx viscosity must meet standard such&such".

Quote:
A note on service intervals when you upgrade the oil to synthetic or dragon's blood or Lucas or LE or whatever.... Per Chrysler, the service interval does not change, for warranty purposes. You can run $90/litre pure certified virgin angel urine, or whatever, but you still have to change it at specified intervals. Not sure how many manufacturers are this way, but I bet most/all.
Not a huge believer in synthetics. When I was a sponsored moto racer, and could grab anything I wanted for any of the bikes, I ran dino in everything and changed it after every race. Guys running synthetic did the same thing, albeit more expensively, and we all blew up motors off and on.
Yes, and.... The oil change intervals are a recommendation. If the owner has oil analysis reports to show that the oil remains good, there is no need to change the oil. I know, bothersome and expensive. Synthetic oil will run longer due to its slower rate of oxidation. That is part of the syn spec of the base oil classification with higher saturates (polyunsaturated cooking oil is good, hydrogenated saturated...with hydrogen...motor oil is good), but there are variations between different qualities of synthetic base oils. And synthetic has higher viscosity index, so it thins a bit less when very hot and thickens less when very cold. Polyaphaolefin base oil has a higher film strength than Group III "synthetic" (very highly refined petroleum) base oil. All contribute somewhat to more engine protection and longer oil life.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #1176
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Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
I had never known about the difference, I'm also surprised by it. I would assume that any stress on the car would be similar.

Perhaps there is an oil quality difference? Our EPA regulates everything it can here in the USA, including oil additives. There are quite a few additives that are supposed to be good for a motor that are limited here.

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I think it's just shady marketing to suck money out of people. I mean like earlier in the thread a man buys a commuter car only to find out that commuting is considered severe service. WTF is it for then? Now you add in their standard strong arm tactics regarding warranty and the need to have service done at the dealership with only OEM parts and you've got a money maker.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #1177
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Cars and bikes are way more expensive in Europe then in America, maybe they try to balance lower selling prices with higher maintenance costs.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:56 PM   #1178
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Originally Posted by triplenickel View Post
I think it's just shady marketing to suck money out of people. I mean like earlier in the thread a man buys a commuter car only to find out that commuting is considered severe service. WTF is it for then? Now you add in their standard strong arm tactics regarding warranty and the need to have service done at the dealership with only OEM parts and you've got a money maker.
Do you think an engine run for ten, fifteen minutes at a time in city traffic will last as long, and be as problem free as one run for an hour or more at a time at highway speeds out on an interstate? Don't think so. It never gets to optimum operating temperature(or just gets there) and is run in stop and go traffic, hence the severe duty classification.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:40 AM   #1179
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Do you think an engine run for ten, fifteen minutes at a time in city traffic will last as long, and be as problem free as one run for an hour or more at a time at highway speeds out on an interstate?
I reckon 15 minutes of driving on a gas pot should get the oil up to operating temps. I wasn't trying to debate whether or not you have to get an engine warmed up properly or not I was saying that buying a commuter car to be told using it to commute is severe service. Why do you think there is a diff between here and euro spec intervals?
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:58 PM   #1180
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The reason for the difference between the US and EU OCI specs is that there are difference environmental regulations in each zone.

In the EU, they panic about water contamination. So they load up the oils with additives so that the OCI can be extended to long time, reducing the likelihood of spills during changes.

In the US, air quality is king, so the additive levels are reduced to keep the catalyitic converters happy.

In the early 2000s, there was a rather intense issue with VW and BMW because the US oils did not meet the OE oil specs. Dealers were buying oil by the SAE viscosity grade instead of the OE specification, and more than a few engines bought it hard due to that. Now, much more attention is paid to having uniform specs that can meet both sets of demands.

Remember, up to temp is not the same as passing emissions readiness. My OBDII Passat collects data on the mean time between readiness tests and the time since the last one. That is a pretty reliable indicator of severe or not severe driving.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #1181
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The whole severe service/non-severe service is moot. The person that originally posted about the service department lying and giving bs information is unwilling to accept the facts.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #1182
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BMW key

I called the local BMW shop asking about getting keys made for my new to me bike. The parts guy explains the process for having a key made and I tell him I'll be in the next day. All is good.
I show up the next day with registration and DL and was informed by the gal behind the counter that the guy I had spoken with the day before was not in but that she would help me out. Went into the back room and finally reappears only to inform me that they are out of blanks and that they were on order.
The next day I call back and she informs me that the key blanks had arrived and that I could stop in to pick some up. I asked what the process is to have the keys "cut" for my bike and she tells me that the shop doesn't do that but that any local locksmith would. I mentioned that I had been told that BMW USA had to be provided with current registration and drivers license and the keys would be shipped from the east coast. She said that was not correct.
I went to another BMW shop that had knowledgable personel and had the keys within about three days.
You can guess which shop will never get my business.
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Old 09-13-2013, 11:07 AM   #1183
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Walked into one of the Ridenow Powersports here in Phoenix, which is a huge dealership...

Two girls and one guy at the parts department, I ask them all at once...

"Do you guys carry Dainese gear?"

They all look at me blankly and respond, "Never heard of it?"

I then ask "What about Rev'It?"

They all look at me blankly and respond, "Never heard of it?"

I then ask "...Okay, what about First Gear?"

They all look at me blankly and finally one of them says "I think I've heard of that some where before, but all we carry is Joe Rocket and Fulmer."

This was my reaction...

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Old 09-13-2013, 12:52 PM   #1184
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Originally Posted by LosAlrider View Post
I called the local BMW shop asking about getting keys made for my new to me bike. The parts guy explains the process for having a key made and I tell him I'll be in the next day. All is good.
I show up the next day with registration and DL and was informed by the gal behind the counter that the guy I had spoken with the day before was not in but that she would help me out. Went into the back room and finally reappears only to inform me that they are out of blanks and that they were on order.
The next day I call back and she informs me that the key blanks had arrived and that I could stop in to pick some up. I asked what the process is to have the keys "cut" for my bike and she tells me that the shop doesn't do that but that any local locksmith would. I mentioned that I had been told that BMW USA had to be provided with current registration and drivers license and the keys would be shipped from the east coast. She said that was not correct.
I went to another BMW shop that had knowledgable personel and had the keys within about three days.
You can guess which shop will never get my business.


What are BMW keys made of, adamantium, that they cannot be cut? Are they chipped or what makes them so un-dupeable they have to be shipped from BMW?
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Old 09-13-2013, 03:26 PM   #1185
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What are BMW keys made of, adamantium, that they cannot be cut? Are they chipped or what makes them so un-dupeable they have to be shipped from BMW?
Not that they cant, they wont. Just BMW policy, or so I was told. One of these days I need to get a spare key, guess Ill find out for sure then.
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