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Old 03-22-2014, 09:51 AM   #1
onewoodsrider OP
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Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Oddometer: 95
05-950S idle

Is idle hanging on these bikes related to a too rich condition. I just finished up installing a sw7 intake and idle hangs up at 2000rpm a bit when I blip the throttle. It drops but it takes a second. The bike runs very strong other than that but it is no wheelie machine. I also swapped my gearing to 16- 45 and I feel it should be lofting the wheel more. I am at sea level and running 165/168, fp needles at 3rd clip,45 pilot and have my floats set at 4mm. My air screw is set to what ever was recommended I cant remember at this time but 1-1/2 turns is sticking in my head. Any recommendations on the idle and the loft ability lol.

Thanks

Todd
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:14 AM   #2
Orangecicle
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I have a 2005 Adventure with the ITG intake and the CPR red pre-filter over it. I'm at 850-900' elevation. I also run 16/45 gears. I am running 172/178 mains or something like that, 45 idle jets, stock needle on the middle position, floats at 4mm, Facet pump, FlexJet2 IMSs (they are gas screws, not air screws). I did have smaller mains and found I was way lean and coughing when running down the freeway at WOT.

I can power wheelie away from every light if I twist the throttle hard enough. If I were you, I'd try larger mains for more power on the top end.

As to the idle, it really depends. I usually have my IMSs out 1.5 to 2 turns -- it depends on the air temp.

These bikes can be very tricky to get the idle right. Fast idle could be too rich or too lean -- the difference is very subtle. Lean usually is seen if you blip the throttle and the bike drops to regular idle and then rises and hunts. Rich usually is seen when you blip the throttle and the bike won't go back to standard -- it hangs too high when the bike is hot.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:34 AM   #3
onewoodsrider OP
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Then it sounds like I am to rich at idle from what you just described. We have basically the same setup other than the mains and needles. Did you block off all your vac lines as well?

Todd
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:33 PM   #4
onewoodsrider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangecicle View Post
I have a 2005 Adventure with the ITG intake and the CPR red pre-filter over it. I'm at 850-900' elevation. I also run 16/45 gears. I am running 172/178 mains or something like that, 45 idle jets, stock needle on the middle position, floats at 4mm, Facet pump, FlexJet2 IMSs (they are gas screws, not air screws). I did have smaller mains and found I was way lean and coughing when running down the freeway at WOT.

I can power wheelie away from every light if I twist the throttle hard enough. If I were you, I'd try larger mains for more power on the top end.

As to the idle, it really depends. I usually have my IMSs out 1.5 to 2 turns -- it depends on the air temp.

These bikes can be very tricky to get the idle right. Fast idle could be too rich or too lean -- the difference is very subtle. Lean usually is seen if you blip the throttle and the bike drops to regular idle and then rises and hunts. Rich usually is seen when you blip the throttle and the bike won't go back to standard -- it hangs too high when the bike is hot.
I changed out my mains and it still idles like its rich, if I blip the throttle it hangs up just a bit then drops down. I went to 176/172 as that's all I had. It pulls very hard up high on the freeway but no wheelie action though. Just doesn't feel crisp off idle. Sounds good though lol.
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:52 PM   #5
ManuC
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  • 4. Idle and low rpm cruise
      • Fuel Screw setting (AKA mixture screws)
        • Set for smoothest idle and 2nd gear, 4k rpm, steady state cruise operation. Set mixture screws at recommended settings, as a starting point. For smoothest idle, 2nd gear 4000 rpm steady state cruise , and 1/8 throttle high rpm operation.
      • Idle mixture screw settings, float level and idle air jet size are the primary sources of mixture delivery during 4000 rpm steady state cruise operation.
        • If lean surging is encountered, richen mixture screws (turn out) in 1/2 turn increments. Alternative idle air jets are can be installed if required.
        • Idle mixture screw settings, float level and idle air jet size also affect high-rpm, 0 to 1/8 throttle maneuvers. Too lean, will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and/or increasing idle air jet size will usually cure the problem.
          • NOTE: A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.
            • If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm drops below the set idle speed, then rises up to the set idle speed, the idle mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in, to lean the idle mixture.
          • NOTE: A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.
            • If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm "hangs up" before dropping to the set idle speed, and there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1500 rpm, the mixture screws are probably too lean: try 1/2 turn out, to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1500 rpm!


I think you are to lean on Idle try 2 turns on the screws and may be 4 on the needle and 176/172 is to rich best with this filter is 165/168 to 172/170 with this filter.
check your plugs....

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...870579&page=29

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Old 03-22-2014, 03:50 PM   #6
onewoodsrider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManuC View Post
  • 4. Idle and low rpm cruise
      • Fuel Screw setting (AKA mixture screws)
        • Set for smoothest idle and 2nd gear, 4k rpm, steady state cruise operation. Set mixture screws at recommended settings, as a starting point. For smoothest idle, 2nd gear 4000 rpm steady state cruise , and 1/8 throttle high rpm operation.
      • Idle mixture screw settings, float level and idle air jet size are the primary sources of mixture delivery during 4000 rpm steady state cruise operation.
        • If lean surging is encountered, richen mixture screws (turn out) in 1/2 turn increments. Alternative idle air jets are can be installed if required.
        • Idle mixture screw settings, float level and idle air jet size also affect high-rpm, 0 to 1/8 throttle maneuvers. Too lean, will cause surging problems when the engine is operated at high rpm at small throttle openings! Opening the mixture screws and/or increasing idle air jet size will usually cure the problem.
          • NOTE: A rich problem gets worse as the engine heats up.
            • If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm drops below the set idle speed, then rises up to the set idle speed, the idle mixture screws are probably set too rich: try 1/2 turn in, to lean the idle mixture.
          • NOTE: A lean problem gets better as the engine heats up.
            • If the throttle is lightly "blipped" at idle, and the rpm "hangs up" before dropping to the set idle speed, and there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1500 rpm, the mixture screws are probably too lean: try 1/2 turn out, to richen mixture. Be sure there are no intake leaks and the idle speed is set at less than 1500 rpm!


I think you are to lean on Idle try 2 turns on the screws and may be 4 on the needle and 176/172 is to rich best with this filter is 165/168 to 172/170 with this filter.
check your plugs....

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...870579&page=29
Thanks for the input, I actually went back to a 42 pilot,1-1/2turns out on fuel screw. The bike seems to idle really good now and does not hang up if I blip the throttle. I forgot to mention I have a two into as well. Bike still will not pull the front end up unless going up a slight hill. Thinking I might go back to the smaller mains.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:25 AM   #7
ManuC
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With the 42 pilot you may keep the big mains jets but put the screws idle to 2-2.5 and then try 4 on the needle every LC8 is differrent ...
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:50 AM   #8
Fundy Rider
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I had a similar issue last year and let's say I lost a lot of hair trying to figure it out.

I too went back to the 42 and put back in the factory(ktm) needle set on the third clip. That factory pro needle ramps up very quick and take a look at the blunt end.

Comparing the two needles you will see the ktm needle has a much more gradual taper and the tip is more pointed as to blunt.

Had the carbs out ten times and finally settled on the 160/165 factory needle at third clip and 42 pilot jet and if I remember correctly at 1.5 turns on the the yes gas screws.

Just above sea level and she will come up in second with a good crack of throttle.

I should state factory air filter.

I would like to play more with the factory pro needle and 45 pilot with some different air jets but I have to say it seems more tractable and also getting better gas mileage with my current setup.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:08 AM   #9
cycleman2
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Hanging idles usually indicate a lean condition, not a rich condition.
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:20 AM   #10
Orangecicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundy Rider View Post
I had a similar issue last year and let's say I lost a lot of hair trying to figure it out.

I too went back to the 42 and put back in the factory(ktm) needle set on the third clip. That factory pro needle ramps up very quick and take a look at the blunt end.

Comparing the two needles you will see the ktm needle has a much more gradual taper and the tip is more pointed as to blunt.

Had the carbs out ten times and finally settled on the 160/165 factory needle at third clip and 42 pilot jet and if I remember correctly at 1.5 turns on the the yes gas screws.

Just above sea level and she will come up in second with a good crack of throttle.

I should state factory air filter.

I would like to play more with the factory pro needle and 45 pilot with some different air jets but I have to say it seems more tractable and also getting better gas mileage with my current setup.
What is listed here is a good starting point with the stock air box. It will not work with the ITG/CPR filter. This foam filter setup really frees up the intake and increases air into the motor, and you have to increase the fuel to match.

To the OP, if the bike is running well at 4K+ RPM and the plugs are not turning white (lean), then forget about changing mains again. You are just worried about idle and mid-throttle. Idle is adjusted (mostly) by idle jets and mix screws. On my bike with aftermarket exhaust, I started using 42 idles but was out 3.5 turns trying to get a reasonable idle. Then I switched to 45 idles, and I'm consistently at between 1.5 to 2 turns out on IMS. The only difference in our bikes is that you have some more exhaust restriction, which means that you might be a little tighter on IMSs than my bike. I would suggest you get the FlexJet2s so that fine-tuning the idle can be done on the fly. Very helpful.

Also note that lofting the front of these bikes is not that easy because of all the weight on the front. You've got the battery and oil tank all shoved to the front of the bike. When Fabrizio Meoni ran the bike in the Dakar, he had the oil tank and the battery moved to underneath the seat because he said he could not loft the front in rough terrain in the stock position. I wouldn't worry too much if you can't just power lift the front. You can always clutch it up.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:55 AM   #11
Sporting Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewoodsrider View Post
Is idle hanging on these bikes related to a too rich condition. I just finished up installing a sw7 intake and idle hangs up at 2000rpm a bit when I blip the throttle. It drops but it takes a second. The bike runs very strong other than that but it is no wheelie machine. I also swapped my gearing to 16- 45 and I feel it should be lofting the wheel more. I am at sea level and running 165/168, fp needles at 3rd clip,45 pilot and have my floats set at 4mm. My air screw is set to what ever was recommended I cant remember at this time but 1-1/2 turns is sticking in my head. Any recommendations on the idle and the loft ability lol.

Thanks

Todd

Hi Todd, some lc8's cannot take the 45 pilots. Hanging idle is the first sign of that. I would recommend dropping back to the 42 pilots, fuel screws to roughly 1.75-2 turns out and somewhat fatter mains in the 170-175 range. Try it without yet adjusting floats and report back. You will also likely need to reset floats to compensate for the leaner pilots, back to the 2.5-3.5mm range, greatly depending on needle position, but its better to only shift a little at a time to see what changes.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:06 PM   #12
onewoodsrider OP
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Location: Gig Harbor, WA
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Thanks for the heads up. As it stands I have 42pilots in the bike now at 1-1/2 turns out on fuel screw. 172/176 mains with a fp needle at the 3 position. I have my floats set at 4mm. I rode the bike yesterday and it seemed to pull very hard all the way through the rpm range. The idle was pretty steady and did not hang up at all. I also am running a two into one pipe. I will take it out and ride it Monday and pull the plugs and see how they look. I want t o thank everyone who has given me advice so far. I am getting ready to take this bike down to Baja for its first time and just trying to get the jetting as close as possible. Thanks again all

Todd
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:15 AM   #13
onewoodsrider OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewoodsrider View Post
Thanks for the heads up. As it stands I have 42pilots in the bike now at 1-1/2 turns out on fuel screw. 172/176 mains with a fp needle at the 3 position. I have my floats set at 4mm. I rode the bike yesterday and it seemed to pull very hard all the way through the rpm range. The idle was pretty steady and did not hang up at all. I also am running a two into one pipe. I will take it out and ride it Monday and pull the plugs and see how they look. I want t o thank everyone who has given me advice so far. I am getting ready to take this bike down to Baja for its first time and just trying to get the jetting as close as possible. Thanks again all

Todd
I got chance to pick up and install a couple of flex jet. I left everything the way it was and went two turns out with the fuel screws to start. Started bike and it went back to the idle hanging again. went out about 1/4 turn more and it got better but is still hanging a little. I rode it before the fuel screw changes and the rear plug look ok but the front cycle was running really rich, plug had quite a bit of residue on it.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:09 PM   #14
ABuck99
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What is your idle adjustment screw set to; or what RPM does your engine idle at when the engine is warm(4 bars)? Have you tried dialing that back a slight bit so it idles around 1300/1400rpms? Mine required a little adjustment after the SW7 install-


Quote:
Originally Posted by onewoodsrider View Post
I got chance to pick up and install a couple of flex jet. I left everything the way it was and went two turns out with the fuel screws to start. Started bike and it went back to the idle hanging again. went out about 1/4 turn more and it got better but is still hanging a little. I rode it before the fuel screw changes and the rear plug look ok but the front cycle was running really rich, plug had quite a bit of residue on it.
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