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Old 01-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #721
dirtdreamer50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
KLR's and DRZ's cost $6500. How is Honda supposed to make a 750cc version of the CB1100 for DRZ money? And what other manufacturer is currently selling a liter+, DOHC, inline-four, fuel-injected bike for $10K or less?

These pricing discussions need to have some basis in the reality of how much bikes currently cost.

- Mark
I've found that today's market on motorcycles has them pricing out around $1000 per 100cc engine displacement for a more standard model. Start adding the Bells and Whistles, race technology, suspension, tuned engines, cruise, audio, etc, and the price goes up from there. So, using that theory, $10,000 for an 1100cc no frills standard motorcycle is in line.

B&W's can be expensive. My RT has a 1200cc engine, but with all the B&W's, it sells for almost $22K. Take all the super goodies off the RT, fairing, electronics, suspension, audio, etc, and it would sell for about the same as the CB, and make itself a good over all bike. Ask any R90 or R100 owners.

Folks seem to want and expect the B&W's and will pay for them, Different strokes and different bikes for everyone, Use the $1k to 100cc rule and see what strokes you and just how much that stroking is going to additionally set you back to own...tomp
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:03 PM   #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
And I'd like gas to sell for a buck a gallon.

KLR's and DRZ's cost $6500. How is Honda supposed to make a 750cc version of the CB1100 for DRZ money? And what other manufacturer is currently selling a liter+, DOHC, inline-four, fuel-injected bike for $10K or less?
Nobody. Which means that one of two things must be true:

1. There's a huge, untapped demand for these types of motorcycles and that motorcycle manufacturers are too dumb to realize it, or

2. There isn't a huge untapped demand for these types of motorcycles which is why nobody else makes one - they can't make money selling them.

Now, you might believe #1, but motorcycle sales history for the past 20 years or so has shown that #2 is pretty much the rule in the US. Again I would refer you to the Zephyr, the CB1000, the naked Bandit and the naked ZR7. All were big naked standards, all were introduced to tap into the supposed desire for a big naked standard, and all weere miserable failures in terms of sales.

Believe me, there's nobody on ADVRider who would like to see a UJM revival more than me. I love those big 4 cyl standards. A CB1300 or XJR1400 would be my absolute dream bike.

But the sad fact is, here in the US, motorcycles have to fit into a "niche" and this one really doesn't (or more accurately, the niche that it fits into is microscopically small.)

It doesn't matter if a million people like this bike. Because how many of those million (a) actually are in the market for a new motorcycle and (b) have that kind of money to spend and (c) actually want this bike?

If American riders had wanted a bike like this, they could have had one many times over the last 20 years. The only one that was really successful was the 1991-2003 CB750 Nighthawk, and that was successful primarily because it was marketed as a budget bike.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #723
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Why does anybody think that if Honda put smaller pistons in this bike and made it a 900 or 750 that it would be any cheaper? It would still cost the same to make. This is what killed the wonderful BMW K75's, everybody wanted one much cheaper than the K100 but they cost BMW the same to build.
Many people are also assume that this bike should be sold for much less because it's a "old style CB Honda". I will agreee that it could be maybe $700 cheaper and that you are paying a little of a premium for the nostalgia and the Honda name. It may look like a 70-something CB but is a brand new, recently developed 2013, 1100cc Honda with FI, ABS, heated grips option and Lexus like paint with an amazing level of refinement.

Check out the out the door price on a Z1000 Ninja, BMW R1200R, FZ-1 Moto Guzzi Grizzo, Harley 1200 Sportser/Street Bob or CB1000R, it can get to $13,000, or much higher, in a hurry.
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Eddy Alvarez screwed with this post 01-10-2013 at 05:28 PM
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #724
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march

don't think it was posted but honda is saying March for the CB.
http://powersports.honda.com/experie...081175e2d.aspx
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:57 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opmike View Post
Why should the Fireblade be any larger than it has to be? It's a performance oriented motorcycle, not a tourer with one's comfort and leg room in mind. There's enough high power, high handing bikes on the market that you no longer have to get a sport bike if you want a spirited, thoroughbred mount.

The CBR600RR and CBR1000RR aren't about practicality, and the average sized human will fit on one as well as any other sport bike on the market.

That said, I'm not a fan of the relative petite nature of the CB, but the bike wasn't designed with the American market as its focus. We don't buy these types of bikes in large enough quantity for most companies to bother trying to make sure a subset of a subset of the buying American public is satisfied. I fully expect to see ZERO CB1100's in the wild in my area (a shame), and I'm not even sure the local Honda dealer will be getting any in.
My point about the 600 vs 1000, was that it doesn't make particularly good sense to build two bikes the same physical size, but one with 1.5 times the motor. To the point of "why should they build it any bigger than it has to be", maybe so more than 20 yr olds who still have good knees can fold themselves up on to it......regardless, a 3/4 scale CB, that visually doesn't do the old CB's justice, with a small tank is too much of a niche bike. I think Honda is missing a significant portion of the market with it's new found focus on minibikes. Time will tell.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:29 PM   #726
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DIMENSIONS CB1100 2013
Rake 27.0 degrees (Caster Angle)
Trail 107mm (4.2 inches)
Wheelbase 58.7 inches
Seat Height 31.3 inches
Fuel Capacity 3.9 gallons, including 0.9-gallon reserve

Dimensions:**CB750
Length: 85.6in = 2175mm**
Width: 34.3in =870mm**
height: 46.1in 1170mm**
Wheel base: 57.3in = 1455mm
Weight: (Dry) 479Lbs = 218Kg
Capacities:**
Engine oil: 3.7 US qt. = 3.5 lit.**
Fuel Tank: 4.5 US gal. = 17 lit.**
Fuel Res.: 1.3 gal. = 5 lit.


Here's some specs on the 1100 on top, and CB750 on bottom. The thing i noticed is the wheel base on the new bike is about 1 1/2" longer, than the original. How is it a 3/4 750 if it is bigger? Honda seems to added a little length for greater stability. Guess we could check the '83 CB1100F for its specs, but that's another post... tomp dd50
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:32 PM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post
I would quibble with the "reasonable price" portion of this.

This bike competes head-to-head with the likes of the basic Sporty, the Triumph Bonnie line, and the Moto Guzzi V7 classic, but last time I checked those were all at least $1500 if not $2000 less expensive.

I think the CB would be an awesome $7000 bike, a great $8000 bike. An acceptable $9000 bike, and a completely overpriced $10,000 bike.

Would have been better as a 750 priced at $6500. Not sure if Honda could have done that, but if they could IMO it would be a great success because then it starts to get close to the Suzuki/Honda 500/650 twins (the Ninja 500, Versys, SV650, etc) in terms of price.

A "good bike" isn't enough - it has to be a good bike at a good price. Generally speaking, people with $10k burning a hole in their pocket want more for their money than this CB has to offer.

Don't get me wrong, I love it. If I had the cash, I would be all over it. But there's the rub - I already have a "standard" bike (Scrambler) and no need of another one. And even if my Scrambler were to get struck by lightning tomorrow, I'd more than likely replace it with another Triumph just because I can get the same performance for $2k less than Honda is asking for this beast.

This bike is like the ugly kid sister with the great personality. Everyone talks about how glad they are she's around, how wonderful it is that she's not hung up on her looks, how much she reminds them of the girl they knew "back when." Everbody thinks she'd make a perfect partner - for someone else.

And then everybody goes to the dance with someone prettier, flashier, and cooler and she stays home.



So you're trying to say that the CB is worth $ 500 LESS than a single disc braked wheezed of a 750 Guzzi with shitty reliability and resale?


SSUUUURRRRRRE.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:04 AM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
So you're trying to say that the CB is worth $ 500 LESS than a single disc braked wheezed of a 750 Guzzi with shitty reliability and resale?


SSUUUURRRRRRE.

And nearly double the hp. The bikes price in inline with others of the same "type". It's slightly more than a Bonnie and slightly less than a Sportster 1200 while having a great specs list. I don't get the complaints regarding price considering the current MC market.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:00 AM   #729
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I think it will sell.

What's a Bonnie/Scrambler/T100 run? $9K?

I would take a Honda for $10K anyday.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:16 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by PAULIBIKER View Post
I think it will sell.

What's a Bonnie/Scrambler/T100 run? $9K?

I would take a Honda for $10K anyday.
Here's offerings from other manufacturers, not previously mentioned, in the same standard, albeit not retro design:

Kawasaki Z1000...$11,000
Suzuki GSX1250FA... $11,600
Yamaha FZ8...$8900
Ducati Monster 1100EVO... $12,000
Triumph Speed Triple...$11,000

These, except for the EVO, all look like Transformers, and if you add in Honda's own CB1000R, also a Transformer at $11,800, the CB1100 comes in at an attractive price point. Not everyone wants a Transformer, even with water cooled this and tuneable suspension that.

The CB is a simple "retro modern", that to ride and enjoy, one just has to get on a go. If Honda markets it correctly here, it will sell, but if they don't it probably won't sell, and be determined another failure, because Americans only want cruisers or crotch rockets, right?...
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:40 AM   #731
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You guys are all barking up the wrong tree.

There's no need to sell me on this bike - I love it already.

The question is, who is the potential buyer of this bike?

A million people can love this bike, think it's awesome, write all kinds of praise, dump a jillion accolades on it.

But the only issue that matters is how many people are going to walk into a Honda dealership and plunk down $10k on a bike that looks like the same one they can buy off of CL for $1500?

I'd be curious to know what Honda's "Break even" point on this bike is. That is, how many do they have to sell to justify bringing it to the US market, and how many do they have to sell to justify keeping it in this market?

Motorcycle history is littered with the remains of innovative motorcycles that got awesome reviews and then collected dust on the showroom floors until they were unceremoniously discontinued two years after their introduction.

To me this seems like a bike that will wither on the vine as a new bike and will only acheive cult status after it hits the secondary market (in the same way that the CB1000 was a miserable sales failure but now has quite a cult following.)

The only retro bike like this I can think of that was a sales success in the US was the Kawasaki ZRX.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by dogjaw View Post
Not a review from a credible media outlet, but I rode the XR1200 and the CB1000 back to back, while I still owned my 03 919... After trying to muscle the HD through some roundabouts, I couldn't wait to get on the Honda; no comparison IMO concerning handling, finish, etc, with the naked Honda. That being said, there wasn't enough difference in the 919 and the 1000 to justify the difference I was going to have to pay to "upgrade". I stupidly sold the 9 later when I started modding my dr650, I sorely miss that bike, will probably buy another unless the CB1100 or even the CB500 don't grab me first...
I ment to sy CB1100. The bike discussed int he title of this thread..DOH... Both retro-ish semi sporty standards...that arent ll about chrome.
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:07 PM   #733
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In this episode of Cleveland Moto, towards the end of the podcast they do a side by side comparison between the upcoming cb1100 and the old early 80's one. It's kind of interesting.
Podcast 12.03.12
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:20 PM   #734
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a saw this bike at the Mpls. Motor show this afternoon, 'very nice bike an apt to be an instant classic.
It is a bit small (I'm 6'2") but no more than most retro standards (W, T100, V7 etc). Much of that
seems due to the seat which must be dished down a couple of inches in the front. Building that up to
a nice level platform should open it up nicely. In terms of buyers, judging from the folks looking
hard at it I'd say it breaks 1/3 hipper 20's something's to 2/3rd's 50+ use-to or wanted-to-have
a CB750. Don't count it out too quickly. It's the nicest standard I've seen in a while an unlike most,
it's not trying to be a clone of the old bike, "modern standard" is well put: it touches back
to memory but does not try to relive it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:04 PM   #735
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Putting the CB1100 against the Monster 1100 is a bit disingenuous, as it's performance is more in line with the 696 - if anything I'd imagine the 696 is much faster, since it is about 150 pounds lighter.

Which brings up another point, why is the CB1100 so darn heavy? Almost 550 pounds for an air cooled mill. Even a Bonnie is under 500 pounds.

I agree with others that I think the market for this bike in this country is going to be tiny, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad or surprising thing.
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