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Old 08-30-2012, 03:20 PM   #31
JRWooden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Thats the correct chain, new I hope. Did the dealer change the sprockets with the first chain? If not you are probably due.

As to the tight spot, some swear you got to find it. Maybe I just do not understand it well enough to worry about it. What causes it? The only thing I can think of is the spline hole is not concentric with the diameter of the sprockets. Piss poor quality control if you ask me.

The problem appears to me is if 1 is 16 tooth and other a 42 tooth, a ratio of 2.6225 to 1, the tight spot is a moving target even if you locate it the first time. At least do 3 complete revolutions of the chain to try to pin it down.
I had a DID O-ring chain sometime back that was almost new and started making weird noises when riding.
It had a master link so I popped it off the bike and "worked" each link ... I found three consecutive links were only the "left' pin was very stiff ... (bad-good-bad-good-bad-good) my suspicion was that whatever piece of equipment that DID had that metered the lubricant into the links did it on a link-by-link basis and that the "left" injection tube momentarily got an air bubble in it or something similar...

To their credit, when I called DID and explained the problem they send me a brand new top-line chain (better grade than the one I had originally bought) and a postage-paid mailer in which to mail back the bad chain so they could evaluate the failure. Something like that might be going on here....
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:29 AM   #32
MikeMike
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JR has good luck with suppliers!

Regarding another poster's question about side stand style chain tensioning, yes, I did wheel the bike around to find the tight spot. Yes, that is another reason why I think it is a little ridiculous to use the side stand method when you have a center stand.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:21 AM   #33
Snowy
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Harmonic.

On mine at roughly the speed described, while wearing the half helmet the chain is slapping at about 160 beats/min.

There is some sort of pulsing through the drive train. But only in a very narrow rev range.

I hear it crystal clear slapaslapaslapaslapaslapa


I figure it's a good noise. While it's making a noise it's going. God knows that's not always a certainty with one of these.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:56 AM   #34
fiwi OP
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I would be more than happy if that was the case Snowy. Would there be any practical way to test this?.tighten chain as much as possible, somehow stop the chain slapping temporarily so I can hear it for myself?
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:20 AM   #35
epicxcrider
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I have the same symptom, but don't see it as a problem at all. Feels like two instruments playing slightly off key with eachother on the same note. Just a product of all the vibrating parts in the machine.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:56 PM   #36
Cambi
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So Cambi, what you gonna do about it?

It's not that strong at the point of being worried - yet.
I am still on a well maintained OEM chain kit so tomorrow, I planned to fit a BMC HP2 sport filter - removed rear wheel, check bearings - work on the chain, in depth cleaning, check each links and lub as many mentioned that it could be the issue. Test ride and revert back over the weekend - Changing the kit will be a mulled wine winter project.

Cambi screwed with this post 08-31-2012 at 02:04 PM Reason: doh!
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:35 AM   #37
Snowy
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I would be more than happy if that was the case Snowy. Would there be any practical way to test this?.tighten chain as much as possible, somehow stop the chain slapping temporarily so I can hear it for myself?
I know this will sound facetious, but...

Change gears.

The DR 650 has this horrible jack hammer effect at 60 in top gear (with standard gearing and carby) and the simplest solution was to change gears. Avoid the rev range where the counter balance shaft, and the crank seemed to hit a harmonic and quite literally the bike humped up and down in time. After changing the gearing and playing with the carb and every thing else, it isn't THAT big a problem, but it's still there. I don't notice it any more because I just don't ride it in that rev range at that speed as a direct result of the effect it has.

Around town, unless I'm in the process of decelerating, at 72kph I wouldn't generally be in 5th gear on the BMW. But if I do lug it along in 5th or 6th at 60~80 it has all sorts of vibrations and noises. It's simply too low in the rev range.

I don't think there's anything specific you can DO about it. It is what it is.

It's like people complaining about noises in a 5 speed car gear bow at 60 or 70 kph. You aren't meant to be in 5th (overdrive) at anything under 80kph anyway. The torque loading on the bearings in the box exponentially increases as the speed decreases. Vibrations will be more pronounced and failures accelerated.

Many years ago I learned this the hard way, doing many long distance trips in 4x4s with high overdrive boxes and V8 engines. 5 gearbox failures in 5 years taught me a lot about gearboxes. The first thing being gearboxes don't like high torque loads on overdrive gears at low revs. Not when you do 2500kms in 24 hours in ambient temps at 35 C and 80% humidity like I was doing several times a year.

The F800 box has 5th and 6th gear as over drives. 4th gear is a 1:1 from the clutch basket, if I read the right specs. 2500rpm is low revs for a parallel twin.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:40 AM   #38
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I know this will sound facetious, but...
No, not facetious at all. For the most part I do just avoid that rev range...doesnt mean the problem is gone though. Really all I wanted to know is that this isnt a huge problem causing any kind of major damage. From what I have read on here its not really a major issue.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:01 AM   #39
Snowy
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I've been trying to find it, because I read somewhere about final drive vibrations on another forum. But I can't remember where I read it.

I was looking for info on something entirely different at the time and it caught my eye because I knew mine vibrated like the guy described. Basically he had a bearing in the final drive section of the box go.

At the time I thought "Oh great, just ANOTHER problem to face.." but it hasn't got any worse over the last 30,000kms so maybe it's not quite what he described.

There is also the rather funny side effect of reading about all these noises, vibrations and problems. You start hearing them, feeling them, and you're dead sure it's going to go wrong with yours.

Like a mechanical hyperchondria. I rode mine after reading about yours and I was dead sure it's worse.

So I switched to one of my other helmets that has much better sound insulation. I can feel it slightly, but I can't hear it now.

Problem solved.

It's a BMW...what could possibly go wrong?
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:20 AM   #40
MikeMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowy View Post

Like a mechanical hyperchondria.
Good point.
I've got a buddy that had an F650GS just like mine. Two up with his girlfriend and the chain jumped teeth on the sprocket because he was remiss with his maintenance. No worries, pull over and tighten it.
He rode more than 10,000kms with a ding in his front rim that put the fear of God in a few who observed it. No worries, when he changed the tire he gave it a few judicious whacks and he was good to go.
Same with plugging his tires. Use the plug like it says in the instructions and you're good for the life of the tire.
I rode his bike one time and complained about the steering head bearings, he looked at me sideways and put another 5,000kms on them.
Yes, he was prepared and carried tools with him, he just didn't feel the need to fret and worry about things. Smart man.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:39 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by epicxcrider View Post
I have the same symptom, but don't see it as a problem at all. Feels like two instruments playing slightly off key with eachother on the same note. Just a product of all the vibrating parts in the machine.
I am always late to the parties and love to read all the insightful possibilities of the cause of concern. I have one of the original F8's and have experienced these vibration in the machine at all different point in gears. I defiantly is a vibration in the motor. I have brought is to the attention of the dealer on numerous occasions, all was driven by a certified BMW Professional, and returned with the same answers. It is a Parallel Twin. I have excepted that I recognize it issues as differences in "feeling" how the bike performs at difference interval of its life, but I have hit that juncture with the bike that I just ride the shit out of it and when it break I will fix the problem.

During the dryer times around here I get a rotational clicking in the drive train. BMW -No problem Yet disappears when temp/ moister changes.

Recognized Jerk throttle control shows slop in the chain.Passed the glitchly throttle control. So here is my little throw out there. Try resetting the throttle. This seems to help for awhile and then it comes back as the miles and bike get broken in. Try to realize i am not the resident experts on this forum to justify the validity of comments, but what I have recognized in the eletronics/ throttle is that if you are holding on to the throttle while starting up the bike it can adjust start point on the computer/ throttle control- this could be a culprit to the issues. No body can verify this at the BMW dealer, but they have the ability to reset it with a neat three step Process. Get your dealer to show you. If I could remember it i'd tell you. I have to many machines with little glitchly issues.

I tend to fire the bike up at this point with the one finger method. But the more you hang in the dirt with buddies the more you tend to start and stop.

It is good riding practice to recognize the changes in the bike, but spending to much time on this forum may cause fear. Ride the fucker till it breaks. Ride with a partner. Any for the rest of you:

FYYFF! See you on the trails.

PS - I tend to get in trouble with the mechanics at the dealer. They are not used to having to Wash the bike of before they get to work on it- when I let them. Shop manager and I laugh at it.

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Old 09-01-2012, 08:05 AM   #42
fiwi OP
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I have excepted that I recognize it issues as differences in "feeling" how the bike performs at difference interval of its life, but I have hit that juncture with the bike that I just ride the shit out of it and when it break I will fix the problem.
Quote:
It is good riding practice to recognize the changes in the bike, but spending to much time on this forum may cause fear. Ride the fucker till it breaks. Ride with a partner. Any for the rest of you:
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:05 AM   #43
itsatdm
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It could be harmonics. The cam chain tensioner is really there to quell it on that chain. It is not there to take up slack or would be located more centrally.

Singles and vertical twins have a lot of weight going up and down and the vibes can only be moved about, not done away with unless a lot of weigh is used. You can tell that is not the case on a BMW by how quickly the engine spools up.

In addition the engine does not rotate smoothly. It slows at the top and bottom of each stroke as the crank angle changes. To quote a favorite phrase, "they all do that."

I have never noticed it, but have been riding vertical twins for the last 15 years. Short of some roller type tensioner on the drive chain the only other "cure" might be to play with the slack. Tighter might make it go away. I usually set slack at the minimum. I do that by putting the bike in gear, roll the bike backwards and use my educated finger midway on the bottom and lift it up until the chain hits the bottom of the swing arm. I then say to myself "that is about right".Chains stretch and loosen with use. Even if within spec, the pins are not holding the side tension they did when new. They are more susceptible to whip.

You also have a practical problem. What are you going to do about it? If not the chain, maybe it is a bearing. I would think there would be some metal in the oil and you said none on the plug. To find out absolutely that is not the case, requires an engine tear down. BMW is not going to do that. Voice your concern to the dealer, so it is on the record and go ride.
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itsatdm screwed with this post 09-01-2012 at 10:27 AM
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #44
MikeMike
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
BMW is not going to do that.
I've seen them do it twice. Meaning I have literally been there when they began the tear downs and have seen an F800 motor in pieces and an F650 motor in pieces. If it is under warranty, they'll be tearing it down sooner or later, either to find the problem, or when the whole thing goes tits up, lights out and is dragged to the dealer in a service truck. It is the latter which will probably have to happen before they'll listen.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:46 AM   #45
itsatdm
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So you are saying a bike with this symptom has been torn down by the dealer? Not your dealer by chance?
Well I guess he can take the bike to the dealer and see if they will in this case. What do you want to bet?
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