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Old 09-23-2012, 09:06 PM   #196
tete OP
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Yep. I am 100% sure I am on the 2nd.

And on both carbs. I pulled it out and checked. I've gone theu these carbs enough times I think at this point I'm pretty comfortable w them.

I've checked the floats, put new float needles, jet needles, atomizers, thoroughly cleaned everything.

It's just too weird.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:36 PM   #197
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So the problem is this bike doesn't want to start? Did this start happening recently or it was always like this?
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #198
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On occasion it does start without help, But for the most part this has been the most consistent problem. It will start easy w carb cleaner or similiar. Just the smallest amount sprayed,Then it starts fine. And if I could get it to start On its own i feel confident I can take care of the idling issue.

It seems like its not getting fuel at the start. But once it get started via spray or whatever, then it can stay on with a turn of the throttle.

The battery is fully charged. The starter is working fine. The plugs are gapped proper and are firing. Obviously. Las
It does start, just w a little help. When I have taken it around the block it runs strong w no backfire or funny business.

I think I have covered every conceivable possibility, but obviously not, since we are dealing with the same issue.

On occasion, it after trying to start it, and it floods out, if I wait like 10 minutes, I can go out and turn the key and it sometimes will fire right up.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:23 PM   #199
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Well I'm stumped.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:50 PM   #200
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Yeah im kinda confused. I mean, why would it start with the spray no problem? I assume because for whatever reason it's not getting fuel any other way? then wants its start its full stroke the carbs begin to function properly via velocity and then they get the fuel they need?

I mean, it's all magic to me but I try to make shit up so I can at least feel like im on the right track.

Im certainly at my limit.

So at the end of the day we can say that 5% of the time it will start and 95% of the time it needs the carb spray to start or no starting at all.

I dunno. Totally perplexed.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:18 AM   #201
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Choke jet in the float bowl

It seems that you have established three facts regarding your cold start operation.
1. If you give it even a bit of starting fluid it starts right up.
2. The air metering portion of the enrichener appears to be assembled correctly.
3. Turning the enrichener on once it runs drops the idle a bit and I quote "Would the enrichers play a role. I mean I cleaned them well and re-install on the CORRECT side. I can tell the bike bogs down a bit when I pull them. "

Number three is the one that's got me going. It shouldn't just bog down a bit when you pull the enrichener, it should just outright die due to too much fuel.
How clean is the choke jet in the floatbowl ? If you hold a penlight to the enrichener circuit fuel supply opening in the bowl can you see a pinpoint of light in the tube that supplies the enrichener ?
If you cant see light, you're not getting fuel, or at least not enough.
Spray some carb cleaner through the floatbowl inlet side of that tube and it should come spraying out of the tube that the brass tubing sits in.
Speaking of the brass tube, is it clear to feed fuel to the enrichener circuit ?
(Sorry, I wish I had pics to illustrate what I'm talking about)
Hope this helps.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:56 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Ju View Post
It seems that you have established three facts regarding your cold start operation.
1. If you give it even a bit of starting fluid it starts right up.
2. The air metering portion of the enrichener appears to be assembled correctly.
3. Turning the enrichener on once it runs drops the idle a bit and I quote "Would the enrichers play a role. I mean I cleaned them well and re-install on the CORRECT side. I can tell the bike bogs down a bit when I pull them. "

Number three is the one that's got me going. It shouldn't just bog down a bit when you pull the enrichener, it should just outright die due to too much fuel.
How clean is the choke jet in the floatbowl ? If you hold a penlight to the enrichener circuit fuel supply opening in the bowl can you see a pinpoint of light in the tube that supplies the enrichener ?
If you cant see light, you're not getting fuel, or at least not enough.
Spray some carb cleaner through the floatbowl inlet side of that tube and it should come spraying out of the tube that the brass tubing sits in.
Speaking of the brass tube, is it clear to feed fuel to the enrichener circuit ?
(Sorry, I wish I had pics to illustrate what I'm talking about)
Hope this helps.

I think I understand. You mean that little pin hole in the corner of the float bowl? and the brass toothpick like rod in the bowl. I was under the impression that that tube was for overflow for the bowl? as for the little pinhole in the corner, Sure, I can blow that out tomorrow morning and see if it helps. I wasn't aware that that lead to the enrichers.

As for dying when I pull the enrichers, it bogs when pulled half. When pulled all the way, I imagine it would die.. I could be wrong. I can try that before I pull the bowls off etc.. It would be odd to have the same problems on both sides no? regardless I imagine it would have issues if one side was dialed and the other was not.

.. .. . . . .. . ..
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:47 AM   #203
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If the bike was sitting with fuel in the bowls there is no reason why both sides shouldn't be affected.
And even if only one side is clogged, it will still affect how the engine starts.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:23 AM   #204
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Yes, all the rods and pin holes have to be open.

The over flow for the carb bowls is the brass/copper rod sticking up and part of the float bowl. If fuel reaches the top level of this tube it flows out onto the ground.

The enrichner pick up is the other tube. It is part of the carb body and hangs down into the reservoir in one corner of the float bowl.

Both these tubes need to be open for different reasons and sometimes people are sticking thin wires into them, they get pretty clogged.

There is one final rare problem that I just remembered. The enrichner copper tube has little tiny bleed holes in it. You should be able to see these under a strong light. They are of course calculated to allow only so much air to bleed though. If the bike was exposed to freezing weather with fuel in the carb bowls and there is any water in this fuel it can freeze and crack the enrichner pick up tube. A cracked tube will not pick up enough fuel for starting. The copper tubes can sometimes be replaced and I've also heard of riders soldering the crack closed. So look at the tubes carefully.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:30 PM   #205
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Ok. Will address both these issues ASAP and get back.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:18 PM   #206
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So I went ahead and took the bowl off. Went thru all the brass little pipes with some non filament fishing line. Most came out clean. I also put some carb cleaner in this corner to see if it would come out of the little pin hole. Nothing.
I did the same to the right carb and the outlet worked just fine. some fluid came out of this little hole. so evidently this is clogged on the left carb. Also the overflow tube was clogged which I cleaned it out thoroughly with fishing line.

I tired to get some fishing line thru this hole, not happening. maybe let it sit in some seafoam. even though thats what i did for 3 days when i first took them apart..
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:14 PM   #207
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ok so after cleaning the said holes I installed, pulled the enrichers, and started it.. It started really easy and I was surprised thinking it was a fluke. so I turned it off and tried to start it with the enrichers off. No start. Then i tried again with en-richers pulled. started just fine. So I turned it off. Waited about 30 sec. pulled the enrichers, started just fine. I tried this about ten different times and everytime it started great. With enrichers pulled. I imagine this is normal.

still no idle but with it starting much easier I think we can start moving in that direction.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:19 PM   #208
tete OP
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Here is my enricher pull. I have one in each side. Homemade because the stock one is in terrible shape.

Any how they work.

Here is what I tried.

When it's all the way down, no start,
When half way up it will start easy
When all the way up it starts up easy.

When all the way up , after start, the bike idles high.
When half way up, after start the bike idles much lower and kind of smooth
When down, the bike dies. Unless I hold the throttle.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:29 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tete View Post
fishing line.
I use music wire.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:50 PM   #210
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